The Salesforce Job Market Reset - 2026

The Salesforce job market is finally showing a pulse, but it is not a comeback story. We sit down with Sasha Semyonova, a leading tech journalist at Salesforce Ben, to unpack what the latest hiring signals really mean for Salesforce careers, from admins and developers to architects and ISVs. If you have been watching job boards fill up with “unicorn” roles and deflating salaries, you are not imagining it, and we explain why it keeps happening.

We talk candidly about the realities candidates face right now: market saturation, ghost jobs, layoffs, and the growing influence of AI on staffing decisions. Sasha shares what she is seeing across the Salesforce ecosystem, including the shift toward specialized specialists who can blend platform knowledge with business analysis, architecture thinking, and practical AI skills. We also dig into why blasting out AI-generated resumes is a losing strategy for most people and how being undeniably human can still cut through the noise when everyone else looks the same on paper.

Then we look ahead. Headless Salesforce, a Slack-first workflow, Agentforce, and rapid UI changes are reshaping how users interact with the platform and what employers will expect next. For ISVs and partners, we cover the pressure to build agent-oriented solutions and the simple question that matters most: what do customers actually want from AI?

Subscribe for more honest market breakdowns, share this with someone job hunting in Salesforce, and leave a review with your biggest question about where the ecosystem is headed next.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Josh Matthews 0:00

Hi, everybody. Welcome to the hiring edge. We have with us co-host Scott Stafford and our very special guest, Sasha Semyonova. Sasha, you guys know her. You've read her writing, and you might not even have known it because she is one of the foremost authors, tech journalists for Salesforce Ben. And today is her very first time on a podcast. We're really excited to have you here today. I don't think there's probably anyone in the audience who isn't influenced in some way, shape, or form by the output that occurs on the platform Salesforce Ben. Ben McCarthy's done an amazing job growing from what was a simple blog into the foremost authority on all things Salesforce journalistically. And you're a big part of that. So today's episode is specifically to talk about what the heck is going on in the job market. Now we do this about once a quarter, don't we? And sometimes there are changes and sometimes not a lot. I don't know that we've had a massive amount of changes since our last episode around January, uh, early February, around uh that time. But we also weren't in the middle of the hiring season either, and that's what we're in right now. So I think that there's a change. I think that there's been AI acceleration, and we're gonna talk about it right now. So maybe you can, Sasha, for us, tell us what's it really like to be a tech journalist focused on Salesforce?

Sasha Semjonova 1:37

Um, busy, definitely busy. I feel like there is not a single quiet day. Um, I've been doing this for just under four years. And uh yeah, it just feels like almost every quarter, sometimes every month, there's something kind of new that's happening within the ecosystem, a trend that we're kind of picking up on. Um, and to be honest, over the last few years, reporting on the job market has at times felt a little bit depressing just because of where the Salesforce job market and the tech, you know, the wider tech job market too has been and the changes that it's been navigating, like um the fallout from COVID over hiring, obviously the emergence of AI and layoffs and all kinds of things like that. But I would say in the last maybe six months, things have seen a slight, ever so slight kind of turn up because we are noticing that hiring across the board is up marginally in the Salesforce ecosystem. Again, nothing that anybody should be like, oh my gosh, you know, let's change strategies completely. But we are seeing that kind of uptick ever so slightly across the board, which is after the news we've been seeing over the last few years,

A Small Uptick In Hiring

Sasha Semjonova 2:50

very, very promising.

Josh Matthews 2:51

Yeah, right. I mean, flat was the new up six months ago. Yeah. And just stopping the bleeding mattered. And now I feel like we're in for, I don't even want to say like a long, slow heel because it's still tech, which means it's still volatile, you know, but it's certainly better than before. I think 10K advisors reported um early last, you know, late summer, early autumn when they came out with their report, about an 8% uptick in hiring, but that's against the backdrop of about a 35% drop in hiring. And so while we've made up a little bit of ground, you know, we haven't made up all the ground. And I don't think, and I'll I've said this in most episodes, yeah, that heyday that we saw, that post-COVID boom, that's unlikely to return, you know, at least for 15 years. I kind of appreciate that. I just think it's unlikely.

Scott Stafford 3:48

I kind of appreciate where we are, where Salesforce is actually seeing what's happening. And they recently uh dedicated to hiring some new call grads. So that was kind of excited, a thousand new jobs. So I think it's good that they're paying attention and and at least, you know, doing what they can. So it's good news, right? I mean, we have a little uptick, things are looking better. Let's get this actually positive, you know, as as much as we can for people. Get that mindset, you know, there's opportunity out

Where The Real Opportunities Are

Scott Stafford 4:17

there.

Josh Matthews 4:17

Well, the and and there is. So let's talk about that. When you're what are you seeing from your position as far as where is the actual opportunity? Because it's not what it was 18 months ago, right? And for those who are maybe just tuning in the first time, or this is the first time that they're like, I really want to learn more about what's happening in the ecosystem. The quick math on what used to be is that um you could get a certification, go get a job for 60, 65 grand in the US, um, be making 100K within two or three years or more as an admin, jump on trailheads, get more certs, get more money, and uh the world was your oyster. That changed. It's not the case anymore. So I'd like to hear from you, Sasha. What is it that you're seeing specifically?

Sasha Semjonova 5:05

Yeah, I think there's um, I think professionals across the board need to be kind of very aware that demand, you know, still uh is still quite different to the supply. The supply outweighs the demand quite a lot. I think it's something like um uh 330% or something like that, which is not a great number. Um, but the main thing is that we're noticing is that especially as hiring has begun to pick up, is the fact that these kind of what I call specialized specialists are needed more than ever. So it's almost like saying goodbye to your traditional admin, your traditional developer, maybe even your traditional architect, because employers are looking for sales for specialists who can wear as many hats as possible, who can um take on, you know, architectural skills, business analyst skills, AI skills, perhaps most importantly. And they're the professionals that are being sought after. I think, you know, we've been saying for a long time that the market is different now and things are different. They will not go back to the way they were before. I think people are beginning to understand that. I think what the understanding needs to be now is okay, how do I change my skill set? Change, you know, what I'm learning on, working on, so I can almost seem more employable because unfortunately it is an employer's market at the moment. It is not an employees' market. And I think focusing on those skills that are going to really make you stand out, because standing out is harder than it's ever been before, is gonna be the most important thing for sure.

Josh Matthews 6:43

That makes an awful lot of sense. And you're you're not wrong. I mean, the the idea of standing out, and we've talked about this before, I keep saying that, but when you can go pay 500 bucks to get your resume pounded to 500 different job posts every single day of the week for like three months, uh, people are doing it, and you fire off your AI resume using AI to a bunch of jobs, and guess what? It works for a small handful of people, right up until they talk to you and get to know you and realize you're not even close to a freaking fit, right? There's still a human element in here. So there's there's upskilling so that you're relevant, and then there's conveying and being able to communicate that you have the qualities that they're looking for. And what is the experience like for candidates today that's different than maybe it was six months ago or nine months ago or even 12 months ago? Do you have a sense of that through your

AI Pressure Ghost Jobs Saturation

Josh Matthews 7:46

work?

Sasha Semjonova 7:46

Yeah, I would say so. And that's a really interesting question. I think the job market at the moment is perhaps not the hardest it's ever been, but applicants have the most kind of components and situations that they have to face in order to get a job and to remain successful in their market. They're up against, you know, ghost jobs, they're up against uh layoffs, they're up against um saturation in the market. That's not just Salesforce, that's across tech. They're up against, okay, um, you know, I've implemented this AI agent that can do the job instead of this person I was gonna hire. That situation isn't too common at the moment, sure, but it is going to become more common, especially as companies become more conscious of the, you know, their budgets, what they're spending it on. They're gonna be considering, okay, do I spend that on AI innovation or do I spend that on growing my team? And we've already seen a select few companies make a certain decision, whether you think that's the right one or not, is gonna be, you know, up to you. But we've kind of seen these, you know, conversations and situations kind of already begin to play out. So yeah, it's not necessarily harder, but applicants do have to think about a lot more when they try and apply for a job at the moment.

Josh Matthews 9:08

Yeah. It's, I mean, it used to just be, oh, you're a tech architect. That's fine. You have your pick, here's five offers. And I remember those days and they were good. I made a lot of money. You know, it was really good. But now it's it's substantially different, um, to your point.

Scott Stafford 9:23

Yeah, a lot more tools, I would say. It it's it's knowing more platforms, more tools. And it's maybe not as deep in each one because that's really not possible because things are changing so quick. So you got to be able to digest quicker the different applications that do different things coming out, and then really be able to lead people. You're seeing.

Josh Matthews 9:44

So are you talking, Scott, about like like cloud, like being able to translate, like, hey, I don't know NPC, but I know FinServe, and I know, you know, marketing cloud, and I know, you know, service cloud. And how can I translate that to NPC? Is that what you mean?

Scott Stafford 9:57

I think that you also want to know where things are going, but understand what NVIDIA is offering, understand, you know, where this whole thing is going. I I often tell people, hey, the robots are coming out. It's gonna be here in two years. We're basically doing that right now. We're we're building agentic solutions that within two or three years will actually be in the robots. And it's a great opportunity. So try and figure out where which each um ecosystem is gonna be doing. And Salesforce, you know, they've gone headless. They want us to, you know, kind of change a little bit more to get out of the CRM and understand all the different places that we can deploy our solutions. So just kind of keep in your head understanding what everything is, you know, where everything is going, the different ecosystems, and then where you can fit in and shine.

Advice For New Salesforce Entrants

Josh Matthews 10:43

That makes sense. I'm kind of curious, Sasha, for you, like if you if you could just say one thing to the folks who are listening, who are, you know, they've heard stories for the last three years, like, oh, Salesforce, oh yeah, you know, it's gonna be awesome. If they came to you and said, hey, I'm like a quarter through my admin cert and I'm really excited, what would you say to those? You take a 24-year-old person, right? They're all excited, they're doing this thing, they feel good because they're on a path. You don't have to be on the right path to feel good about a path, by the way, guys, right? Like you can, and as my dad always said, no matter how far down the wrong road, you've gone turned back. And it's an old Turkish saying, right? But like, what would you say to the 24-year-old who's like, yeah, I'm doing trailhead, love the community, yeah, I went to a dreaming event. Like, what are their chances really?

Sasha Semjonova 11:35

Yeah, firstly, I think I would make sure that I didn't dampen their enthusiasm too much because at the end of the day, it's still, you know, incredibly rewarding to be involved in the community, to be involved in Salesforce as an ecosystem, the wider community. All of that is still so important. And the community keeps telling me this as well. I'm sure uh Scott advocates for that as well. But um, I think when it comes to the job market, I think I would just be like, okay, you know, please have this enthusiasm. It's gonna get you far, but also be realistic. Like listen to what your network, the community is saying, listen to what they're finding is going great, listen to what they're struggling with, you know, go on community forums, go to these events like you've been going to, but ask questions like, okay, you know, how did you experience this? How long did it take you to find your job? You know, where are you seeing people hiring at the moment? I think the the clearer of a picture that this person or anyone listening can kind of develop of what the market looks like right now, the better chance they have of succeeding because the chance of, you know, the opportunity for success is going to look different for everybody. You know, we can't just go, okay, go into this field and you'll get a job tomorrow, or get into this field and you'll be great. No, it's more of a case of okay, what's the market doing and where is my place in it and how can I get into it?

Josh Matthews 13:02

I love that. Yeah. I kind of like it. I don't love it. And I'll tell you why. That's I think it's a great perspective because I'm all for dampening people's spirit if it's gonna save their life. Yeah. And but you're you're right. I mean, it's like if they're like someone's gonna make it in Hollywood, you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, go to LA, like take your acting classes, like you got in a commercial, great, keep going, you know, like maybe you'll be the next Tom Cruise or Tom Hanks or or you know, whoever, um, Meryl Streep, go for it. Um, and you never want to kill that, but there's this massive thing, and it's a problem. And it's that 22 to 26 year olds aren't getting jobs in entry-level positions in tech easily. It's about nearly 10% harder this year than it was last year, and last year wasn't great. And so what can they for those folks? They have to do something different because if you've got a three-year admin with five certs who's good, who has references, who can't land a job, and it's not just because they want you know 90 grand, it's because there's not a job for them because the agents are taking over. I had an admin and I fired him because I can go in and run my stuff through agents now. I can create a pick list, do this, find this, get me 500 customers that I need for that, create a marketing campaign, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't need them. I just don't need them. But if you can find someone who can like go in there, knows the stuff so that they don't ruin it, but then can run the agents to do it. I mean, do you feel like there's enough being said, whether it's on Salesforce ban or in your own journalism, that's sort of like not trying to poo-poo the whole ecosystem because it's a great ecosystem, it's continuing to grow. You know, when we talk about feeling like things are sliding backwards, we're talking about reduced growth. We're not talking about massive losses, right? We're just talking about reduced growth. Like, what's something that you would say to that same person? I'm I'm more curious about like what's your softer, gentler way than sounding like me. Like, what are you doing? You know, don't do it. I guess the reason why I want to hear from Sasha real quick on this. Sure, go ahead. Yeah, yeah like if you were gonna communicate, like, does any of that ring true for you? That's the first thing I want to know. And two, how would you communicate that differently than me? Like, what are you doing?

Sasha Semjonova 15:37

Yeah, um, I'd say yes and no. And I think this is why, you know, a big part of what I advocate for is be realistic about the market. I if you go back and read many of my articles talking about the job market, we and you know, myself, my fellow journalists have said, okay, maybe you should consider a career outside of Salesforce. We're not afraid of saying this, of course.

Josh Matthews 16:00

Yeah.

Sasha Semjonova 16:01

You know, the way that's just the way the market is. You might have a higher chance of success in a adjacent software. Like there's no denying that. But also in the same breath, over the last six months, I've spent more time speaking to young talent in the ecosystem who ended up getting jobs. And I'm talking to, you know, uh ones that have come out of different career programs. And they said, Oh, I was so scared of what everybody was saying, and then I ended up with a job. And again, I think that's where the realism comes into it because it's a case of you're gonna have people that are still getting jobs. These jobs are getting filled. So Salesforce is hiring, it's hiring for a number of different positions. Partners are hiring for a number of different positions, doesn't mean you'll get one, but I don't necessarily think that Salesforce, compared to perhaps any other adjacent company, is more or less difficult to get into right now. I think they're all on the same playing field almost.

Josh Matthews 17:00

You're saying the company or the ecosystem?

Sasha Semjonova 17:02

I'd say both.

unknown 17:03

Okay.

Sasha Semjonova 17:04

I'd say both. Yeah. I think yeah, the advice I give is if you are really determined, you really, really want to be in this, you know, ecosystem, you want to be with Salesforce for whatever reason you have, go for it. Just be realistic about what you need to do to get there. Understand it will not be easy. It's not gonna be easy anymore. Those days are over, but you can still do it. And I think that's what needs to be said as well.

Networking User Groups And Adjacent Paths

Josh Matthews 17:32

Yeah, I think that's a that's well put. And Scott, you were gonna jump in there. Go for it, man.

Scott Stafford 17:36

I think the reason why I loved it is what I heard from her is get out there and actually hear. Go to the events. What is really magical about our ecosystem is there's a lot of dreaming events. Not all of the ones have so many opportunities where you can go there and and find your niche. Talk to some people, say, hey, what's working? Not necessarily there, you're gonna end up in Salesforce. They might say, Hey, you're really good at this. Hey, go and I have a job kind of um Salesforce adjacent with Snowflake or something like that. We just heard that Snowflake was killing it with their earnings, a lot of opportunity there. So it is a really great opportunity to go to cheap conferences. I go to quite a few conferences and uh some of the bigger companies cost two grand. So being able to go and get a perspective from people is is pretty cool. And our ecosystem does have a lot of people that lean in. They lean in and they give you the perspective, right? Um, whether it's good or bad, they, you know, they kind of tell you, you know, the truth of the matter, right? Where it is. And it kind of like this podcast. So there's a lot of opportunity here, and and there's still those that really want to get involved and put themselves out there can get a job in this ecosystem.

Sasha Semjonova 18:46

And just to quickly kind of add on to that, if cost is a barrier, consider going to the user groups as well. I'm a regular attender of the Bristol Admin User Group. Um, it's just a really, really good space to be able to kind of connect with the community and talk very candidly about experiences and stuff like that. If you're gonna learn anything anywhere about the ecosystem, it's within those spaces.

Josh Matthews 19:12

That's great. Really good recommendations from both of you. Appreciate you both sharing those perspectives. Because I can get a little hot, as you can tell. I'm like, ah, but you know, that age group, that's the age of my kids, you know. And if my kid was like, I'm gonna be an admin, I'm like, I don't know, dude. No. I'd probably be like, you can do whatever you want, and and I'm always supportive of them. But if you're not, if you're not physically required to be there, right? A career, one's going into you know anesthesiology uh assistance, that type of thing, or physical therapy, that kind of thing. Oh, you need a person, uh, like a human there. The other one uh is is uh making clay, you know, doing clay, and another one's a gonna be pilot. Like they're they're all doing these things where you physically have to be there, which is a safe play for 15 years down the road. So when they're 35, 38 years old, it's a good long play. But if you're not gonna do that, that's okay. But wrapping your arms around an admin cert before wrapping your arms around Claude, you know, like serious stuff. I don't mean like, you know, what's the best movie I should go to? Like, I'm not talking treating it like Google. I'm I'm seeing like really heavy stuff, like investing in it and getting amazing at it and learning how to build agents outside of Agent Force. Right, you know. I mean, I've got I've got agent, I've got Agent Force, but it's not working great, honestly. Like, like, like the juice isn't worth the squeeze for me right now on it, you know, and we're seeing that a lot. That's not a new story. Yeah, I'm just one person out of thousands, right? But juice isn't worth the squeeze for me. So, but I can do that stuff on my own. I can just go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah perplexity and build this, go make that agent. And I can do that stuff very quickly and get the same juice for a lot less squeeze. And so anyone who's going out there, I would just say augment it, right? If you're gonna go out there, you're gonna, you're if you're job hunting right now and you're not spending 10, 15, and you're it's been six weeks since you've had a great interview and you're spending all your time on trying to get this next cert, thinking that's gonna get you past your next interview, you've got a uh you've got some uh uh challenges with your prioritization. Because I'm assuming that Sasha, these these young folks that that are coming up to you and saying, like, hey, I did it and I like cranked and I got that job, weren't they nice? Weren't they engaging people? Weren't they friendly? I mean, they came up to you. That's a quality already. Now you've got another, you know, 40 to 60 percent of people who would never do that in their life. They would never come up to you or me or Scott or anybody else. And so we're talking about the people who are actually getting these jobs are born with certain qualities and then work hard to improve it. They're not born with those qualities, they have to work really hard to overcome it. And it often means that they're actually not in the stream of work that they probably should do where they're going to feel comfortable, where they're going to feel natural. I'm not talking about like overcoming fears because that's something different than how you're wired to process information in your brain or how you're wired socially. Do you see what I mean? And so if you're not a particularly social person, uh, you know, work in the room at a conference is gonna be hard. Doesn't mean you can't do it. Vanessa and I have lots of episodes all about that from old podcasts. But just I really think that if people paused, take some of these profile uh tests, you know, whether it's old school MBTI test or disk or or um, I mean, God, there's like a hundred of them, right? Take three or four or five, feed all that into some AI. Talk to the AI that you're already working with that knows you really well, and say, I know you know a lot about me, but what don't you know about me that would help build a better profile or understanding of me? This isn't giving away the store, guys. This is getting better output, getting better results. And just like, here's my MBTI, here's my disk, here's my this, here's my that, you know me. What else do you need to know? Answer all those questions and be like, on a scale of 10, five's average. How great is entering into a Salesforce admin role and putting all my eggs into that basket right now? Doesn't mean it's accurate, but to your point, Sasha, it's more information.

Sasha Semjonova 23:36

Absolutely.

Unicorn Job Posts And Pay Gaps

Josh Matthews 23:37

So let's stay. Okay, I'm done ranting. That's my little rant. Um I'm I'm kind of interested in um people having a good understanding of what they're seeing in the market. And I saw a post from um Jordan Nelson. If you don't know Jordan Nelson right now, like I'd be shocked. He's got 100,000 followers on LinkedIn. He's a heck of a nice guy. And he had a he had a neat post. It was so simple. He's so good at LinkedIn, man. This guy's LinkedIn game is like as good as it comes. He's really fantastic. And he had a post of Shaquille O'Neal with um, oh God, I uh Simone Biles. Okay. So one of the tallest athletes in the world and and possibly the shortest athlete in the world, right? Both uh, both gold standards in their work. And she's this tiny little thing, and he's this huge thing. And Jordan said, um, uh, where did it go? I've got it in here somewhere. Yeah, he said, I mean, am I the only one who sees this? And it had Shaq as Salesforce job description and the salary, Simone Biles, right? And a lot of people commented on this. I think there's like 400 likes. That's pretty big for LinkedIn, right? So it really caught fire, and I just thought, yeah, that, but that's when has that not been the case? Like, that's not new. And there's this kind of hidden current of hiring. So you're only seeing the jobs that are not getting filled, right? Yeah. So there's a real skew of like, yeah, it's shocking that you keep seeing these jobs where they want the world and only want to pay a bag of peanuts and they're not getting filled. You're in journalism, you're talking to these people. How much is it the case that people are just not seeing all the information?

Sasha Semjonova 25:30

Hmm.

Josh Matthews 25:31

Good point.

Sasha Semjonova 25:32

I think that's a massive part of the market. I think, yeah, the jobs uh we like to kind of pull out sometimes and be like, okay, it's asking this, this, and this. You've got to have this many years of experience. They sometimes ask for certs, not always, but they often include quite a big amount if they're looking for a certain amount of certs. And then you're looking at the salary. And I'm obviously not based in the US, but I see the salaries and I'm like, okay, I know that's not a good salary. I know what a good looks like, and that isn't one. Um, but then again, kind of in the same breath, there are evidently people employed within the Salesforce ecosystem that are happy where they are. You just don't necessarily see them talk about it. But I think it is important, you know, that time is spent looking at those jobs that, you know, the salaries are definitely not what they used to be because that is a massive thing that puts people off entering the market, staying in the market. We're seeing satisfaction across the ecosystem lower. Um, what when it comes to being in the community, when it comes to the work they do, the compensation they get for their work. We do a salary survey every year and we uh kind of dissect those results and kind of see how the community is feeling about their roles and how they're compensated. And yeah, it's not a pretty lineup, unfortunately. But as you said, it's not new. I think it's something that we should keep on looking at because I don't personally think it's gonna change anytime soon. And I think that anybody entering or deciding whether they want to stay in the ecosystem should be very kind of aware of that discrepancy between the two.

Josh Matthews 27:11

Yeah, good points, Sasha. And I'll say this it's just a message to the um head headhunters, talent acquisition teams, hiring managers, they're the ones, someone's responsible for this output, right? Someone wrote that job description. A lot of times, AI wrote it for them. And they suck at prompting. And so it came out with a super unrealistic thing. All right. So don't do that, right? Do research. If you're gonna write a job description from scratch and you've never written really good job descriptions that know how to attract the right kind of candidates for you, just pause, do a little research, get good at it. You can get better at it in about an hour. Like it doesn't take much. You can write a really good prompt in about 15 minutes of concerted, thoughtful, you know, programmatic thinking, right? About what the output is. And you don't have to just copy and paste and post, right? I think the biggest fault that that I see, by the way, these aren't companies that have never hired Salesforce people before. These are companies that are usually replacing someone they lost. And when we we talk about this, like you go into an organization, and if you're there five years and you're showing incremental, increased capabilities, responsibility, you know, um, you're adapting. Well, every time you're taking on something new, getting better at something, you're just kind of screwing that unicorn horn onto your forehead a little bit harder and a little bit tighter. And then when you're like, F this, J Matt out, bye-bye, bye, Felicia. I'm taking off, and you're gone. And you leave these people in a larch and they're like gasping for air because you took the wind out of them, you kicked them in the solar plexus, and now they need to replace all of you. And it's gonna take two people. It's gonna take two people. I was talking to a colleague of mine just yesterday, and he was describing the job description, and it's no different than what Jordan was highlighting. I mean, that's a real thing, you know. People are out there, and you know, I think it was Felicia who told told me once. Um, she's like, that's not a job, that's a team. Right? Like, that's a team. So you want to hire a team, right? And if these hiring managers, this little bit's for them, if they can be thinking about like, okay, what's the core that if someone came in for three months, crushed it, put everything together, who would you need then after that three months? Right. Because you can get a couple contractors in who kick ass who don't want to work for you. You can't afford them. It's not a fit, but they'll come in and set you up right, right? And then get the real person in, not the real person, but get the person, the stable person in to just hunker down and knock out the work with a little architect check-in, you know, uh, for one day every quarter, something like that, or every month. So I think that's a way around

Apply Anyway Then Reach Out

Josh Matthews 30:21

it. Um, what's your advice, Scott and Sasha, for folks who are seeing these unicorn postings and then not applying, even though maybe they should. What would you say to them?

Scott Stafford 30:33

Yeah, I'll I'll take that first. I think there's a lot of um job postings that are, you know, that they're overstated what they're really looking for. And I definitely would, you know, apply, but then also make sure you reach out as a human, right? DM, get in there, find every way you can to connect with somebody at the company so that you shine. And then also just talking about the skill set. I have 27 certifications. I wish if I had to do it over again that I would have had a little bit more diversification. I wish I had an NVIDIA certification and I'm working on it now, and then also an AWS, just giving me a little bit more of a, you know, a broad profile for people, you know, and it also would help me just to understand, you know, all the different ecosystems, how it fits together. But definitely, I I've never been someone that looks at someone's, you know, a uh job description and say, hey, that's not for me. I usually think, uh, it's always overexaggerated. And especially when I write one, I'm like, look at this job description, right? There's nobody that could actually fill this, right? So they're always, you know, stating their dream list. And if you get in there and show them that you really want it, right, and and that you can adapt and do the job, and you're a real human, and and that really makes a big difference, I think, right now, that you're a human, you want it, and you can offer those soft skills in complementing what they're also looking for in the job description.

Josh Matthews 31:56

Yeah, good points. Sasha?

Sasha Semjonova 31:58

Yeah, no, I would say I definitely agree with that. Um, a lot of the responses that come from job advocates now, a lot of them are going to be bots or AI in some form. So if you can stand out as a human, you're already being that percentage of people that have applied. But also kind of as a young person in the kind of tech market, I think my kind of thing I like to say to people is, you know, I'm sorry, I know it sucks, but it's what you kind of have to do. If you don't do that, you know, your chances of getting a job is just so much lower. I think it it was even a few years ago, it was very different. It was if you had all the necessary parts of a job description, you could go ahead and apply. Even if you didn't have some of them, if you were like, okay, you could just lay out your resume well enough or you wrote a good cover letter, that would be enough. I think you definitely need to do a lot more now. And I think I understand that frustration. I understand it's tricky when the, you know, the economy is in the shape that it is, when jobs are harder than ever to find. But it's a case of going back to what we were talking about earlier, the how do I stand out? And as Scott said, the kind of reaching out is a really, really good way to do that. Don't feel afraid of these job listings. Um, you won't know if you don't apply. If you really look at it and I'm like, no, okay, this is not me at all. I don't match any of the criteria. Don't waste your own time. Like, just there's there's no need to do that. But if you're looking at it and you go, okay, maybe this could be me, just give it a go. Give it a go.

Josh Matthews 33:32

Yeah, just give it a go. Just give it a go. And and real I think it's really good for people to focus, you know, when there's look, there's thousands of jobs out there. I don't know what there are, 30,000, 40,000 job postings right now. Okay, cut those in half because a bunch of them are just gonna be agency stuff. Cut those in half because a lot of them are doubled up. You've got five agencies all working on the same job. Okay. You there's still thousands of jobs that, and at least hundreds that you'd be qualified for for most people who've spent at least 12 to 24 months in the ecosystem out there. The question is, how are you gonna stand out? So do that. There are other episodes that talk all about that. So go check that out. You can check out the Josh Force YouTube channel. You can check out tons of stuff on Salesforce Ben. Um, there's so much information about how to improve your chances in the job market. But what we're trying to stick with today is just improving your understanding of what's going on in the job

Negativity Authenticity And Motivation

Josh Matthews 34:23

market. And and let's keep it real for a minute. Okay, so unemployment right now is hovering around 4.3, 4.3, something like that in the United States. That's not bad, guys. Like that's not terrible. 4.0 is kind of a nice balanced average mix. So it's not really horrible, but there's another um there's another uh metric that's used. I think they call it U6 or U3, something like that. I'm I'm moderately unfamiliar with it. But when you look at the weather, so if I looked at the weather here in Jupiter, Florida, and it might say 85 degrees feels like 98. Okay. So the feels like 98. That's like your wind chill factor, that's like your mugginess factor for like what does it actually feel like? And it feels like it's eight or nine percent unemployment. That's what it feels like. Okay, it's not, but that's what it feels like. And we actually are closer to that eight, nine percent in technology because two factors. One, people working part-time, so they're employed, but they're not getting paid what they need. They can't support themselves, they can't support their family. Okay. The other, the other factor is people who just stopped, they gave up, they moved back home, they're playing video games, they're not working, they quit without even bothering. Okay. So when you take that into consideration, now you're looking at eight, eight and a half percent of of people, and that skewed that is a little bit higher than what feels healthy, right? So the trick is when these folks don't uh aren't working or they've quit working, a lot of them didn't quit being on socials, and socials love negative, they love it, they love it. I mean, it's just I'm just I I've said this a couple months ago. Don't get sucked into it, guys. Don't get sucked into the negativity. Oh, corporate this, corporate that. I'm gonna tell you a story, quick story. I interviewed a woman, neat lady, experienced, skilled, decent work history, not a lot of flip-flopping, right? Um, but she said something really interesting. And I had to ask her to go a little bit more deeper. And what she said is, you know, I want to work somewhere where I can be my authentic self. Like, what the fuck is that? Okay, like I don't know what that is. Like you're authentic or you're not. You're showing up as you or you're not. You know what I mean? Like, I I'm different talking to a client than I am on this show. I'm different when I talk to Casey, I'm different when I talk to one of the kids, you know, or the checkout person at the store, right? Am I being inauthentic? So I didn't really understand it. So I I needed to push. And it what what it turned out is it sounds like she's quite creative and very community organized, uh uh and interested in the community and all that stuff's great. But she also was communicating some information, like it sounded like it almost sounded like toxic work environments were sort of very common, very normal, and you need to be like guards up to protect yourself against that. Okay. And then I asked, I said, Well, has it happened to you? She's like, Oh, no, no, not me. I was like, really? Then, like, why are you leading with that? And she's like, Yeah, I don't know. I said, You go to conferences, you go, you talk to a lot of people, you're just like socially involved. She's like, Yeah. I'm like, so I'm a big fan of these conferences, I'm a big fan of Dream and Events, I'm a big fan of Ohana Slack, I'm a big fan of people who are like-minded or differently minded, getting together, having discussions. What I'm not a fan of are a bunch of sour puss people with big ideas, thinking that um, you know, because they've had three toxic bosses in a row, and by the way, that means they're the toxic person. But because they have three toxic bosses and because it's very headline carryable, meaning it's very um that news can travel fast in social media, it can catch fire, threads can explode, oh yeah, me too. Oh yeah, F that, right? Guys, again, like stay away, stay away from the sewer rats. Okay. And I when you when you go to these conferences and you talk to these people, or you go to even a session where they're talking about, you know, hostile work environments and this kind of stuff. I just want you to ask yourself, like, is this person kind of a kind of a jerk off? You know, who you're listening to? That doesn't mean if they say that they're a jerk off. I'm not saying that they are. I'm just saying you got to ask yourself, like, will you hire this person? Does this person seem like it's not jerk off, a pain in the ass? Is this person a pain in the ass for an employer to work with? Because if you're a pain in the ass, guys, nobody wants to hire you. And if if you're a pain in the ass and you have a job, no one's gonna want to keep you. And as soon as they can say, uh, yeah, we're scaling down AI, like, please go. Um, I just I guess this is kind of my very because I haven't been on this show for like two months, and I've seen it so many times when I'm talking to candidates that I can't work with that. Like you're good, but you talk like that, I can't place you. I can't place you. I'm focused on the top 10%. That's not top 10% stuff. And Sasha's made some really excellent points about how to stand out. Well, that's a way to stand out, but you'd be standing out for all the wrong reasons. You know, you've really got to keep your context relevant, which is I'm not working, I need a job, what am I willing to do? Just about anything, anything that's legal, anything that's not amoral. Let me do that, right? Will I eat crow? Yeah. Have I had to bite my tongue through my you know, 40 years of work, 35 years of work? Yeah, tons. Still didn't bite it enough. So, you know, what's the state of the AI mark uh of the world right now, the Salesforce market, what's going on with AI in the market right now? Humans win, right? I mean, Scott and Sasha, you guys, you guys are a couple of the you guys speak out on this stuff all the time. Your humanity will beat AI as long as you know AI.

Scott Stafford 40:55

Yeah.

Josh Matthews 40:56

Your humanity, yeah, your humanity is gonna beat out the other 999 applicants, right? But that doesn't just mean because you're a human, you have to be a nice person. You have to be transparent, you have to be honest, you have to have done some research. I talked to another gal, she was referred by a client of mine. Um, hey, I want you to check out this person. I'm gonna talk to her. I loved her. I thought she was fantastic. She was really great. She had done nothing in two years to invest in herself. And I don't recommend, I didn't recommend hiring her. Like she could just spent a week, just a week, a couple nights. Just like, what are these terms? What are those terms? What's changed? Just read an article, watch one episode of anything, you know. She hadn't invested in anything to prepare for the conversation I had with her or to actually exit where she is and get established in a new place. I don't invest in people that don't invest in themselves. And so you've got to invest in yourself. And it's probably not going and getting that extra certification or even that CSM or any certification at all. It's like, really, like, what can I do as a human to stand out and be awesome? Like be freaking the obvious choice for when I'm going into this job. State of the market, 2026 is your humanity matters, but boy, you've got to rein it in and get a hold of yourself and like be a good person and a nice person and do all the right things that lead up to it. And I want to I want to balance that message, and then we're gonna go and I've got more questions for Sasha. I want to balance that with this, and it's real simple. It's it's hard to stay motivated when you're feeling demoralized, right? When you're applying over and over again, and your spouse or your partner, boyfriend or girlfriend is like, how'd it go today? And you're like, not great. And you're wondering what happens when your card is maxed out and your bank account is in the negative, and now you're writing bad checks. And how you sit there and you look at your kids and they go, Did you get a job today, dad? And you go, I'm working on it, kiddo. Don't worry, like that's hard. That's gonna take a big piece out of you. And let's face it, it's heartbreaking. I know I talk loud and I talk like cut it out and don't do that shit, and don't be a fool, but that's on purpose. I want you guys to know that's on purpose because it's fucking wake up time to like get out of your own freaking way. If you're failing right now to get a job, I promise you, it's not the market. 4%, it's not the market. It's decisions that you've made. Just start making better ones right now and focus on the things that you can do, that you can control. Where your effort is. Does that make sense? Does it make sense to you two?

Sasha Semjonova 43:51

I'd say so.

Josh Matthews 43:52

Just yeah, but but it's okay to feel hurt. So, but you gotta, you know, I think these community groups are great. For giving you some lift. You know, when I go, people are like, oh, I see them. It's like, you can do this. There's so much love in the room. Go where you can find some love.

Scott Stafford 44:09

It'll buoy you. All right. A couple of times. I think you gotta digest that too. Negativity is not gonna get you a job. That's just the I mean, you gotta get that in your head. Be positive about what you're doing. Be honest with what you're doing, right? And then go make it happen. Period.

Josh Matthews 44:26

That's yeah. There's a reason why they're like, don't bitch about your boss at a new company, right? Because they're just gonna think, are you gonna bitch about me? You know? There's a real reason for that. If you need to I I did that. I left a job and then I got it, I got an interview, and oh my god, I was just like the worst interview. All I did was complain about how all this stuff happened and none of it was my fault. I think I was like 30 something, or I don't even remember. Like it was stupid. I was terrible interview. I wouldn't have hired me. Um, not at all. All right, Sasha.

Headless Salesforce And UI Reinvention

Josh Matthews 44:59

I want to know um, I want to know what you think is the next thing. Like I'm not asking for a full prediction of like what's gonna happen in 27 and 28. That's okay. But if there's a thing in the ecosystem, whether it's headless, you know, remember when it was like remote is like the big thing. Like, yeah, what are you catching a whiff of that maybe there's not enough data to actually report on yet? But you're spite you've got spidey senses, I can tell.

Sasha Semjonova 45:35

I do.

Josh Matthews 45:36

Your in your intuition is like starting to pull all these threads in, and you're like, this is gonna be a story, July, September. Like what can you give us an idea? What is that gut telling you right now?

Sasha Semjonova 45:51

Yeah, for sure. I think, and I'll kind of go into a little bit about how it's gonna potentially impact professionals after, but I think, you know, Salesforce has already been hinting it with Headless with everything they're doing with Slack. I think it's very evident that Salesforce is focusing on completely retransforming its UI, right? The way people interact with Salesforce is already starting to become different. But I think the amount of change that is going to happen within the next two months, probably around Dreamforce time as well, when they decide to announce something big, you know, we've already got Parker Harris saying, why ever log into Salesforce again? And we've got Salesforce, you know, releasing Slackbot and Agent Force coworker that kind of connect all these things that they've been working on since 2024, all into one place, making the UI simple. I imagine they've heard the conversation that the community's been saying for a long time of Salesforce is too complex, you're releasing too many products, and we're getting confused. The getting confused part, I think Salesforce still has a problem with that. That's a conversation for another day. Um, but I think kind of blending that and transforming the UI so Salesforce is not entirely a different product, but you almost work with it differently, that's gonna be the next big thing, I think. And for professionals, that's gonna mean kind of having a really particular knowledge of the platform and what influences it. You've got Claude in Salesforce now, right? You've got Anthropic, you've got all these different kinds of agent connections. They're bringing out more. It's connections this week. They've released four new agents for marketers, right? I feel like there's just so much coming out now. And if you're not keeping on top of that, you're not kind of at least attempting to make sense of what's going on, the direction that they're heading in, the way they've made things headless. And I don't think head headless is just a starting point. It's probably gonna accelerate from this point onwards. If you're not kind of aware of the direction that Salesforce is heading in, I think you're just gonna really struggle with the platform because you, yes, of course, you're gonna have customers that are still working with Classic, for example, that have really small orgs and stuff like that, but you'll also be coming across these businesses and these companies that are like, okay, what's the next thing that I can get from Salesforce? And if you're if you're not aware of what that is, then I think you're really gonna struggle.

Josh Matthews 48:22

Excellent, excellent insight. What does that mean for the ISVs out there?

Sasha Semjonova 48:27

I think it means a bunch of different things. I think Salesforce has begun to definitely incentivize kind of agent work for ISVs. Um, they overhauled their partner program, they put in a bunch of new things that are like, okay, if you focus on making um solutions orientated around agent force, around AI, we'll give you these incentives, you know. You'll put you're peddling our mission almost. But I also think ISVs now, because obviously ISVs are separate to Salesforce, they need to really be trying to look at, okay, what do my customers specifically want from AI? You know, like do they want these big, flashy integrations? Do they want these a thousand capabilities, or do they want something smaller that can kind of just pull everything in their org together, make things more efficient? I think now is the time for really kind of understanding your customers, understanding your audience. They're gonna be the ones buying from you, they're the ones gonna be, you know, talking or choosing your solution, understand them. Now is the time to do it.

Conferences To Attend And Why

Josh Matthews 49:34

Excellent insight, Sasha. This has been a lovely conversation. It's been wonderful to have you on board. Um, Scott, can you help us understand what conferences are coming up? What should be what should people be paying attention to? I know you mentioned Dream Force. We're all gonna be there, right? Yes. Okay, what else is going on?

Scott Stafford 49:54

Yeah, all of us are gonna be there. I I'm excited. I'm gonna be going out to Mile High. Uh, that's a big conference. It's gonna be out in um in Colorado, and that's at the end of August. I believe they're still gonna be having the one out in SoCal. It's also in August. Unfortunately, I think we heard that um Force Landia got canceled, right? And and then there's also Dreaming in Color. I'm not actually sure exactly the date, but that is That's in, I think it's in July in Atlanta this year.

Josh Matthews 50:23

Yeah.

Scott Stafford 50:23

It's yeah, it is an incredible conference. So uh lots of good people there, and and it could help you to get motivated, but also lean in and ask people for some honest, you know, opinion. Hey, what do you think I should focus on? Because I've been giving a lot different, you know, perspective for people that are doing um like the admins are. I'm saying, yeah, that's a good place. You're almost done, but you probably want to lean in a little bit more to AI after this. So, you know, have those deep, authentic conversations, you know, be honest and just kind of like what Sasha was saying. Don't just listen to everything that Salesforce is saying. They have their own agenda. If you're an ISB, serve your customers, right? Find out what they want, right? And have those conversations and then build products for them.

Josh Matthews 51:09

Terrific. And Sasha, you're gonna be at Dreamforce. Any other conferences or physical appearances that you'll be making?

Sasha Semjonova 51:16

Yeah, I um I'll be at Dream Force. I will also be at SF Ben Con, which is Salesforce Ben's uh very first conference. That's later in the year. I don't have the month off the top of my head, but I really in London? Uh yeah, it is gonna be in London. The details are on the Salesforce Ben website.

Josh Matthews 51:35

Fantastic.

Scott Stafford 51:35

I have our good friend Gabby is working on that, and she is really excited. She was on your show, Josh, and she says it's gonna be one incredible conference.

Where To Follow Sasha And Closing

Josh Matthews 51:45

So exciting. So exciting. Sasha, you are welcome back anytime. I thought your responses were insightful, um, like broad. You're your like your understanding of the ecosystem. I mean, it's so different from ours, right? Because you're looking at it so broadly in a full-time capacity. Um, how can people follow you, stay on top of your article releases, things like that?

Sasha Semjonova 52:13

LinkedIn is definitely the place. Yeah, I'm most active on there talking about anything and everything, especially if it's controversial. If it's controversial, I'll have my name on it. So, yeah, you can definitely find me on LinkedIn.

Josh Matthews 52:25

Fantastic. Well, thank you, everybody. We'll be back in two or three weeks. I'm not sure exactly when, but we'll be back for another episode uh sometime in June. It's been a pleasure having you guys, and uh, we'll be back. Bye for now. Bye, everybody.