Salesforce Hiring Edge

Scaling Salesforce Teams: Snipers, Swim Lanes & Zero Ambiguity

• Josh Matthews and Josh LeQuire • Season 3 • Episode 70

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What does it really take to scale a Salesforce team from 10 to 200—without chaos? In this episode of Salesforce Hiring Edge, Josh Matthews and Josh LeQuire are joined by David Kestenberg: former CIO, Salesforce transformation leader, and 5-time Dreamforce speaker. David shares hard-won lessons on hiring for trajectory, building leadership layers, and maintaining clarity and accountability—even when you're growing at warp speed. From ‘sniper’ developers to culture-building rituals, you’ll learn how to balance technical needs with human dynamics, set your managers up for success, and create systems that scale. Packed with real-world advice for tech leaders, consulting partners, and hiring managers who want to build high-performing teams the smart way.

takeaways

  • The vibe check is essential for ensuring team fit.
  • Experience plays a crucial role in assessing candidates.
  • Trusting managers is key to finding the right talent.
  • Technical skills must align with team dynamics.
  • The overall team vibe influences hiring decisions.
  • Expectations should be clear during the interview process.
  • A good vibe check can lead to better team cohesion.
  • Understanding the 'true North' is vital for alignment.
  • Hiring is not just about skills, but also about culture.
  • Effective leadership involves balancing various perspectives.


Sound Bites

  • "The right expectations and all of that"
  • "It's about the vibe of the overall team"
  • "I trust the managers that work under me"


interview process, vibe check, team dynamics, technical skills, hiring, management, leadership, organizational culture

David Kestenberg:

My responsibility is to do the vibe check. I need to say will it fit to the overall what we're trying to achieve today and tomorrow? I trust the managers that work under me and the director to get the right people. As far as their capabilities from a technical perspective, I trust myself to know how to make that fit from an overall perspective for the vibe of the overall team of what needs to happen.

Josh Matthews:

an overall perspective for the vibe of the overall team and what needs to happen.

Josh LeQuire:

Welcome to Salesforce Hiring Edge, the show for leaders who want to hire smarter and scale faster with Salesforce, Whether you're building a team or bringing in a consulting partner. We're breaking down what actually works in the real world.

Josh Matthews:

All right, let's get into it. David Kestenberg is a former CIO, tech strategist and startup founder who's led everything from M&A integrations to Salesforce transformations. He's built and scaled teams at ReMedical, highmark Health and multiple private equity-backed companies, driving growth, cleaning up chaos and turning vision into execution. He's also a five-time Dreamforce speaker and a former IDF reconnaissance commander. I'm just going to say I really love this guy. We've had a couple hours of conversations over the last few weeks. He's infinitely fascinating. He definitely has an edge. He's a perfect guest for Salesforce Hiring Edge. David, welcome to the show.

David Kestenberg:

Thank you, I'm happy to be here.

Josh Matthews:

So, david, you had shared with me and Mr LaQuire here some information about how you have spearheaded enterprise Salesforce transformations across over 20 organizations. And look, I'll be honest with you and with the wider audience that while I am gifted and skilled at helping people to scale teams, I am not a CIO gifted and skilled at helping people to scale teams. I am not a CIO. I don't have to grow a team from 10 people to 200 people in 18 months or two years, but you've been in those kinds of situations. What is the number one thing that you are afraid of when you know you have to scale a team significantly?

David Kestenberg:

Well, I would say two things. One is always the imposter syndrome. Am I good enough? Am I the right man for the job? Am I the right fit? Can I build the right team around me? Can I be the leader of leaders? That's like the internal fear imposter syndrome, which is like if you don't get up in the morning and say I can do better tomorrow, you're living in the wrong body. In reality, the external fears is always the budget. Am I solving the right problems? Am I throwing money on the wall? Increasing headcount? For what purpose? Because a lot of times scaling is not necessarily going from 10 people to 100 people. It's not necessarily going to change anything, it's sometimes going from 10 to 50, but changing roles, ranking, communication, you know, internal processes, and that's going to make the scale in the output.

Josh Matthews:

So you had talked about. You had talked a little bit about how to hire for trajectory instead of just your immediate need, and maybe not hiring just to solve all of your immediate needs, but where you're going to be. To solve all of your immediate needs, but where you're going to be, how do you help other leaders and how have you had to utilize your own intelligence and strategy to figure what that actually looks like? Because we all know you could hire 10 people. They could show up tomorrow, but how long is it actually going to be until they're highly effective?

David Kestenberg:

Right. Well, creating the synergy I think it's a different type of question, but just creating a team for trajectory. If I'm focusing on that, there are basically two elements here. Element one is usually I'm not hiring. There's a hiring manager, there's a manager in the middle. There's a scrum master, there's a director. Someone in the middle is actually hiring the individual that's going to do the work. So that individual that makes the decision needs to work with the right GEDQ, with the right expectations and all of that.

David Kestenberg:

My responsibility is to do the vibe check. Whether it's interview three or interview two or interview four, I need to say, will it fit to the overall what we're trying to achieve today and tomorrow? So, to be able to do the vibe check, I have a lot of experience, seen a lot of people and been in a lot of interviews. I trust the managers that work under me and the director to get the right people as far as their capabilities from a technical perspective. I trust myself to know how to make that fit from an overall perspective for the vibe of the overall team, of what needs to happen. That's one side of the story. The second side of the story during the vibe check, the main thing, that I'm the main thing that I'm checking. The main thing that I'm checking is where is the true north of the individual?

Josh Matthews:

so you mean the north star, correct?

David Kestenberg:

no star, yeah true north of the individual. So you mean the North Star, correct? North Star? Yeah, true north Individual, north of that individual. That's coming to the interview Because some BAs want to be PMs and some PMs want to be architects and some architects want to be testers. There are a lot of different. Our ecosystem is so beautiful If people are going through the regular growth trajectory.

David Kestenberg:

Your trajectory of growth is like you could be a BA, you'll be a senior BA all the way to architect or all the way into leadership. You usually know you. Usually at your mid-20s, mid-30s, you already know. If you're just out of school, 22, not even asking that question, it's not the question of where you want to be in 10 years, it's more of who do you think you are? Are you going into leadership? Are you going into being a tech expert? Once they call it, we're doubling down on that, creating a career, swim lane and personal development plan. You basically attach a buddy to be on a buddy program to help that individual to do the onboarding. You create a mentorship that will take that guy into the steps that they call.

David Kestenberg:

And that's the important piece of that, Because if you're committed to your own personal journey, but you expose me to it. I know that in a year or two you're going to be a senior VA. You're going to be a lead dev. You're going to be a product owner. I'm not going to need to hire someone from the outside. You're already on track there. You're going to be a product owner. I'm not going to need to hire someone from the outside. You're already on track there. You're solving so many problems through the system just by saying this is what I want to do, I will pay for the certs. I'm always comfortable paying for the certs just to get the guy go or the girl go on their journey. So when you're asking how to plan for trajectory, one is the accountability of the person and two is the leadership in the middle that makes the hiring decision needs to buy into that.

Josh LeQuire:

Follow what you're saying. It sounds like there is in that vibe check, you know, sort of a culture fit assessment you're doing looking for a growth mentality, a learner mentality. If you were to put weights on different factors you evaluate in a candidate, how much, what weight would you put on the vibe check the culture fit, the growth mentality, the desire to learn and integrate into the team today and tomorrow versus technical skill versus strategic play, and a roadmap for the company or project or portfolio projects you're hiring that person in for.

David Kestenberg:

That's a really good question, Josh, and I think you know it's really fascinating how to break down the ability to predict how people are going to behave in the future. But I think in my perspective you know I ran large Salesforce teams but I'm not an architect. Like I can't ask the right question when an architect come in Definitely not a MuleSoft guy or a Kapado guy. I'm not going to be able to go toe to toe with them. So what I need to do is I need to do, basically, look at that, as you know, a little bit of a military example, but like it's, it's soft. Okay. A commander needs to know two pieces of things you need to know how the sniper rifle operates and it needs to know the soul of the sniper. So when you look at the sniper rifle, it's the tech stack. Is he a health cloud? Is he velocity? Is he a capado? Is he a MuleSoft? Is he a Slack dude? Is he an integration guy? Is he a Tosca testing Whatever they are? That's that caliber range, the soul of the sniper. That's a fascinating thing Because a sniper is like Dev they work alone.

David Kestenberg:

They sit at night with Red Bull and write code. You know A BA needs to have. The team needs to have the engagement, the interaction. Let's do the solutioning. Let's work on the documentation. Let's do these reflection sessions. Let's do these reflection sessions. Let's do all those things so you can recognize at the individual if he's a technical BA that behaviors as a sniper, or he's a basketball player, is he a swimmer that underwater? Don't talk with anyone, just get the results I'd call the best of the best. Or he's a soccer player Without the other 10 guys around him he cannot play.

David Kestenberg:

So when you're asking like how do you know? I'm like not everybody that I look going to be the MC of our next town hall. Some of them will not even open the camera but they still can be a critical piece of the orchestra and, as long as they understand that there's a greater good, there's a higher being of, can contribute to society, to my team, to the company, and I accept that I also tax them with some of my needs, not just cash, also recognition, feel good, validation, all those. Then we can jive. Then there's a game.

David Kestenberg:

But if there's a person that seems like don't want to speak that language, it seems too much in the whatever dei space, too much in that. That is not comfortable with. I'm like, okay, go work for google, it's so good. There's always needs for developers, you know. So that's like that's how I'm trying to kind of put it in frames and basically teach the officers under me that the directors, the managers, the the team leads to look through. You know, beyond the fact that there's a title with a rank, with a job description, there's a human there.

Josh Matthews:

I love that the folks listening to this show. They may be listening right now and going like, yeah, I do need to scale. I need to add 20 people in the next six months. I'm working with a client right now. They need to add five people in the next six weeks. Okay, we can do that, but when we're talking really large scale, I got to spin it up. Spin it up fast. What kind of structure do you provide to these directors beneath you Seeing what's necessary? And, more importantly, more importantly, what advice would you have for the people listening to this program? Like what are the one, two or three takeaways that they should really be keeping top of mind when they're advising their managers and directors below them for making this happen, because it's got to happen? What would you tell them?

David Kestenberg:

Well. So I think this answer is going to be a little bit less inspiring than snipers and swimmers. I think there are frameworks of work. Okay, so if we are an organization that is committed to agile, then you're building scrum teams. It's very, very simple. You know, everyone in the scrum team has a role. Are you a BA, are you a dev, are you a scrum master, are you a PM, whatever coach you know? So you're filling slots.

David Kestenberg:

So when you're thinking about, you know, we had an amazing opportunity to build a product in Highmark and we had to rapidly hire a lot of people I don't know, 70 people over three months, some version of like insane during COVID, from all times in life, during COVID to do that boost. So we made a hug home and we were like, okay, it's fine, we need 20 developers and 15 BAs and this and that, but we're not. We actually need to trust our leadership and say, okay, this is six scrum teams. Each scrum team has two leaders, one scrum master, one product owner. Great, let's get those two and let them build the other four, the other six, so delegate. So, yes, you take the red accounts to yourself, ownership of the problems and you delegate the green, everything that is working. You push down because everybody can do that Everything. That is a problem. You ask to be involved. You are present in the hard conversations as a leader, but we are talking about pre-problem. It's okay, we have 30 racks that we have to fill and time to market is what you said six weeks or 10 weeks on 20 people.

David Kestenberg:

You have to break it down to teams. You have to allow a middle leadership and junior leadership, team leaders to be involved in the hiring process, not necessarily the be involved in the hiring process, not necessarily the job description or the end goal, the individual interviews and say, okay, you're going to be working with me. I have a certain style. Are you a good fit? No, okay, you're going to work with Josh. Josh has a different style, enjoy him. You know it's not necessarily that the individual that is going to an interview going to get a yes or no based on the first or second interaction with the company you know. So you need to have that versatility.

David Kestenberg:

Now, the main thing with scaling is that magic spreadsheet is that it's a holy grail. Everybody needs to, because you're doing second interview and third interview and technical interview and then super technical interview and all those things. You need to have the holy grail of one centralized location, that you have the summaries of all the interviews, the feedback from the people and then, if it's going to the next one and next round, they need to keep update the same place. So I usually had one of one of the quarterbacks of those sessions updating that and making sure that this is happening, because it was critical that was. I would say that was number one advice.

Josh Matthews:

That's intense stuff. Have you utilized like a scorecard or segmented out who's going to cover what? I think I saw in some of our conversation notes around having look, these people are checking for vibe or culture. These people are checking for technical competency. But let's say you've got Jim over here and Sally over there. They decide the vibe check's not good for Jim's team, could be good for Sally's team. But how do they convey beyond just their own personal perspective?

Josh Matthews:

Well, so, josh, let's start with the simplest thing Are you using a scorecard or something like that?

David Kestenberg:

Yes, we do use the nine box and we use the scorecards and that, but that's not for the interview. That's later on in the three, six and nine months checkups on the quality of the individual In the interview. To be very, very honest, fight check is interview three. You need to first pass the barriers of what is expected from the job and after that we'll determine what kind of personality you have. If you're not passing the minimum barrier of you know you can do mule self-integration or you can do heavy workflows on velocity or whatever it is, then it doesn't matter that you're cool the fact that you can, you know, work on cars or whatever it is then it doesn't matter that you're cool the fact that you can, you know, work on cars or ride boats or be an amazing chef or play different music instruments that none of us ever seen.

Josh Matthews:

Stop talking about me, David. Stop talking about me, yes exactly you know.

David Kestenberg:

So I would say that, yes, there is a method. You start with the technical and the hiring managers. If it's the same person, great, and if not, then you start with the technical and then it's going to the hiring manager. Okay.

Josh Matthews:

Let me ask you this You've said in the past that culture is reinforced through systems and rituals. Right, right? What do you mean by that?

David Kestenberg:

So my two favorite rituals are the Friday call, which is an organization level call. So it's if I have two three directors under me, or two three managers under me and I'm the director, it's the entire org that is working for me. So it's a hands on that is not a town hall. That has a certain cadence within that Friday meeting. That includes, you know, acknowledgement and a guest speaker and some music. It's a cultural, a lot of different things in that Friday call but it's basically a hands-on. That number one highlight is the essay Situation Awareness. It's telling the truth in front of everybody about what's going on, if we are on the mountain or to the mountain, whether we are at the end of the sprint or beginning of the sprint, close to deployment or far from deployment, saying everything that needs to happen, saying what they need to hear and allowing a lot of feedback to come and be an open conversation. When I'm saying acknowledgement, it's not some manager appointing some dude that did the deployment. That's not acknowledgement, that's just badges. Acknowledgement is a team member recognizing a different team member on action that they did. It's like who find the barriers? You know, show me a small success that happened but someone else did. Don't do I did great, don't do like some manager appointing some dude. You create collaboration between the different teams.

David Kestenberg:

So our ritual is every Friday call start with the MVP picking the song that we're going to put on. Before you know, the first two and a half minutes of the meeting is like everybody joining because there's 50 people. So the songs some dude pick Metallica and some dude pick some Indian music and some dude pick some Indian music and some dude pick some Israeli music as the only Israeli on the court, and they're already exposed and becoming themselves. Then we move into the acknowledgement. They already start recognizing and high-fiving each other. They've created the right vibe and the right conversation. Then you move into other pieces of that, then the situation awareness, obviously housekeeping at the end and that. So that Friday ritual is great because things are flushing out in that Friday. Then Monday morning I sit with my leaders and we say, okay, here's the three objectives that we need to do for the week. Those are what important to me. Do we understand each other? Do you see things the way that I see them? Do you understand the priorities? Do you understand the how and the why? Interesting.

Josh LeQuire:

So it sounds like, david, you've got an opening and a closing almost to a week right. You've got your opening rituals on Monday, your closing rituals on Friday. Friday is celebrating success. Monday is all right, let's get focused.

David Kestenberg:

And it's a lot more than that, because Friday you go to the team meeting, but Thursday you're doing the dashboards. You're doing the dashboards because there's also going to be an exec meeting on Friday, not just a team meeting on Friday. So it's moving in a certain way, but I want to put the spotlight on full team, not town hall, not something that everybody needs to dress up, something that everybody's coming with their lives, something that everybody's happy and smiling to see each other, that type of meeting. And then Monday it's a lot more brief. It could be a call, it could be an email, it could be guys, very clear, regular week, three objectives. All right, kill it, let me know, control your sector. If you have problems, let me know, I'm here, that's it, you know. It could be. It could be five minutes on on monday, but it's important to invest the time on friday with the team. Let them go to the weekend feeling appreciated, but for real, by their teammates, not by some dude, some suit like by the teammate.

Josh LeQuire:

Feeling seen is really really important to want to come back on Monday. The theme of collaboration here is phenomenal. I share an opinion here with you that I'm sure you have, that when you foster that level of recognition among teammates, that positive reinforcement loop, just compounds and compounds, and compounds. It brings people closer together. It helps to achieve results very effectively. What are some other ways to foster that kind of collaboration day to day, not just on Fridays, with recognizing a team member?

David Kestenberg:

You know, I think that it's very important to bring yourself and your whole self into the story, and sometimes it's difficult. Sometimes people are more. You know, not everybody is an extrovert, introvert. I don't want to talk about my dad, my kids, my dad. Some people are very comfortable doing that. Everybody has something that they really like to talk about and once we make them feel comfortable, they will. And it can be. You know, we just had Passover a week ago. Talk about freedom from a Jewish perspective.

David Kestenberg:

It can be a part of a meeting because it's, you know, it's inspiring. And then, you know, because IT is super diverse, you get to have all you know, the indian culture coming in with the wally and with cricket, and obviously, people that actually understand soccer, not like americans. And so if there was a game yesterday, there is not a problem to open a meeting with top of mind have. Have you seen Barca yesterday? Yes, no, was it cool? Move on. And when you bring yourself and it's, you lower the walls, we're already connected on something. I know that he's a cow guy because he keep wearing all those brands. Great, now we have something to judge on as people and not, as you know, bricks Like yeah, I'm ba on this project and this is all the things that you will hear from me. Otherwise I'm a bot, you know. So, humanizing the individual opening the door, and it's dangerous, I have to say. You know, hl don't like it.

Josh LeQuire:

They are not sometimes people bring a little too much through the door well, yes, no, no.

David Kestenberg:

You know we need to have boundaries in the way that we do that. But when I started those Friday calls and then COVID hits, we had to talk about difficult things. People were afraid. People had both financial crisis and health crisis and isolation. Now everybody wants to work from home. But you know, five years ago, definitely for people that were at that time 22, 24, that was it's big or people that got locked in the house, you know, after working in the office for 15 years, opening the door to talk about those challenges, yeah, you're kind of walking this HR line that they might say, hey, you are, you can be a liability here and I'm like, as long as it's all in positive note, it will increase productivity.

Josh Matthews:

The thing that I keep hearing is accountability and zero ambiguity, like those two things combined with vulnerability. I'd say those three things seem to be echoing through you, and I don't think I'm wrong here. I think this is what you're saying. So when we look at Thursday, it's your dashboards, friday, it's your big meeting, it's your big vibe meeting, right, and it's a hoorah. But at the end of the day, you can't have ambiguity in these situations and it's really impossible to scale without trust, and I had the fortunate opportunity to spend a couple hours in the last month or so chatting with someone who reported directly to you Very bright, very smart. Are we dropping?

David Kestenberg:

names.

Josh Matthews:

No, we're not going to drop names on the show.

David Kestenberg:

We'll see, he's a call guy he's a car slash boat guy. Yes, yeah.

Josh Matthews:

Yeah, axar, highly intelligent, very bright, and it made so much sense to me when we, when you and I talked and and then, after already having spoken and spent some time with Axar, it's like, well, yeah, if you've got people like Axar on your team, of course you can feel confident in delegating, but you're the one who has to pick those lieutenants under you those directors?

Josh Matthews:

What do you do, like, aside from like the tech check and the vibe check? I get that because you and I think we're very similar personality profiles. You do a different profile system than I do, but I correlated it and we're practically the same. We're very different people with very different experiences, but we kind of approach the world, I think, similarly. We see the same information, we make decisions kind of based on the same things. When you personally have to build your team of lieutenants or your team of directors and managers under you, that's different than scaling 70 people in three months right, I need three to six people and I need them very quickly. I need three to six people and I need them very quickly. I'm just curious what do you do first? Do you check your network? You call your favorite recruiter, you post an ad on LinkedIn? No, no, only network Only network.

David Kestenberg:

We're old enough to be able to say, for that intimate role that is reporting directly to me and need to be one of four, maximum five people, then it's most likely people that I already know. It can be that they were managers before and now I'm ready for them to be directors. So you know, when I moved from different places, people that were maybe a little bit lower moved up and now reporting directly to me, but it's usually within that clan, within that group of people that I know. But I want to touch on, well, two things.

David Kestenberg:

One, when you were talking about that vulnerability element and lack of ambiguity Right, I disagree as strongly as I can about the ambiguity. You can be extremely clear about your ambiguity, extremely clear. You can come to your team and say here, guys, here's the situation. We don't know if the client is going to do A or B and we will not know. In the next 27 days we will need to operate without knowing that situation and maybe it's going to be A, b or C, but we will not know. And I need you to be agile and vigilant and all those amazing adjectives, but it's still ambiguity. But it's clear that it's that.

Josh Matthews:

That's still zero ambiguity as far as I'm concerned. I mean, these guys are running 200 miles per hour around the track. They've got a plan A, plan B, plan C, like you've got to plan for alternatives. So that's fair enough. But I think when we're talking to our team members and we're trying to understand what's going on with them, the clients can be ambiguous. Right, there's 10 other people over in that firm. They're all meeting, they're trying to come up with some ideas, they're waiting for information from us. Then it's a back and forth loop and we're going to get it. But when we're talking to those managers under us, when we're talking to those directors, Our core value is not changing.

David Kestenberg:

We will always do the best we can the fastest we can at the lowest budget that we can. They understand that.

Josh Matthews:

But there's still zero ambiguity. It's like don't feed me bullshit, don't feed me bullshit, Don't tell me you don't know. If it's something that you could find out, go find it out. It's not like don't find out just because you don't feel like finding it out.

David Kestenberg:

Go find it out. You know what. Let's connect that to how I pick my people. So part of how I pick my people that's the part one is that. Part two is I need to be able to tell them that sounds like a you problem. Because that sounds like a you problem is like I trust you, I believe in you, control your sector, solve it. And if you don't need that, if, if you cannot raise a flare, I will be there before the flare is going down. You know that's. But someone that cannot accept it sounds like a you problem and and will freak out, probably cannot be in the immediate circle.

David Kestenberg:

So there's a couple of filters like that and in my head I have, you know, a color system and obviously green is the account management and the vendor management, the money side, the budget of labor, budget of licenses, budget, that. So there's a green guy and he's going to do that. There's always in the five people team. There's always going to be that guy. And then there's going to be a dev guy. It doesn't need to be a VP of engineering, it needs to be someone that can take zero to one, that can drive the team into something. That was not there yesterday and now it's there, that guy. And then there needs to be someone that can speak with everybody, that can go to the product team, that can go to client side and they can go to the dev and be kind to all of them, understand, speak all the languages and be able to do that the Minister of Foreign Affairs office.

David Kestenberg:

So when I'm sitting and I'm making my Israeli salad to my media team and we're sitting and eating and talking, you can look around the table and you will see that they can all bond, but they are extremely different because they have their sectors. There's overlapping between the sectors. Obviously, the dev guy needs to be on the same page with the money guy and the money guy needs to be on the same page with the guy that makes the promises, the solution guy. But they are very, very different and for me it's like there are four or five seats that we need to fill and if we do that, under them they will know how to build those lieutenants and below the lieutenants, and that they will know how to scale those teams, because the machine has the logistic element, the core, you know, the fighting force and then the rest of the fluff that we need to have, so it's's.

Josh LeQuire:

I hope it makes sense that it doesn't well, I think, david, what I'm hearing is like you, you seem. I don't know if this is innate or you've developed this through experience working, you know, kind of in the civilian sector, or if this came through some of your military training.

David Kestenberg:

It's more of a ceo behavior than uh, yeah, uh than a lieutenant or I happen to be a major, but like it's more of a CEO perspective, I need the CFO to deal with the money. It happens to be a manager that just deal with the 50 people budget.

Josh LeQuire:

This is great because, david, you're right. I think what it sounds like you're kind of leaning into is what kind of roles do I need, who's the best fit for that role, and how can we, day by day, develop people in those roles and develop people to rely on each other for their individual, unique talents across the team?

Josh Matthews:

Ladies and gentlemen, this has been Salesforce Hiring Edge with David Kestenberg, and if you'd like to connect with David, you should. He's on LinkedIn, kestenberg, k-e-s-t-e-n and it'll come right up. That's B-E-R-G. By the way, david, thank you so much for being on our program today. Happy to be here and, by the way, you're welcome back. In fact, I think you're coming back for another episode.

David Kestenberg:

I hope so, if you'll help me.

Josh Matthews:

Absolutely. We'd love to have you on. Thanks so much, david and Josh. Great questions today. Thanks everybody.

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