The Salesforce Career Show
The podcast dedicated to helping you HIRE, GET HIRED and SOAR HIGHER in the SALESFORCE ecosystem.
Enjoy these live recordings of The Salesforce Career Show from X Spaces and YouTube's JoshForce. A guest + AMA format hosted by Josh Matthews, founder of Salesforce Staffing, LLC, Joshforce and The Expand Exchange and Vanessa Grant, Dreamforce speaker, 9X certified BA, consultant and social media darling. Recordings are 3x per month.
The Salesforce Career Show
Winning Teams, and Mindset Mastery with Tony Robbins Coach, Trevor MacCalder
Get ready to revolutionize your career in the Salesforce ecosystem with our latest episode! Join us as we sit down with executive coach Trevor MacCalder from Tony Robbins Research, who brings a wealth of knowledge in effective hiring strategies, assessing attitude and team fit, and navigating cultural differences in the workplace. You'll gain invaluable insights into the subtleties of hiring the right talent and building cohesive teams that thrive together.
Trevor's expertise doesn't stop there; he shares compelling success stories, including a transformative journey in golf, to illustrate how minor adjustments can create monumental shifts in your career performance. From practical advice on job seeking and maintaining confidence to the power of self-forgiveness and a growth mindset, this episode is packed with actionable strategies. We also touch upon the importance of understanding team dynamics and leveraging assessment tools like DISC and Myers-Briggs to place the right people in the right roles.
We wrap up with inspiring stories like Roger Bannister's historic four-minute mile and practical tips to condition your mindset for resilience and focus. As we gear up for the Dreamforce Conference, don't miss our reflections on the lessons learned from failures, the impact of mentorship, and the significance of asking the right questions. Tune in to uncover the secrets to achieving personal and professional success, and learn how to harness the ripple effect for lasting fulfillment.
And now the number one audio program that helps you to hire, get hired and soar higher in the Salesforce ecosystem. It's the Salesforce Career Show with Josh Matthews and Vanessa Grant.
Josh Matthews:Welcome everybody. This is a special episode for a number of different reasons. For one, vanessa and I are sitting right next to each other here in my home office in Jupiter, florida, and we also have with us on Zoom my friend and my executive coach, Trevor MacCalder from Tony Robbins Research. We're going to be diving in with Trevor on some incredible best practices for people who are hiring or people who are seeking new careers or trying to achieve more out of their current role. So welcome Trevor. We'll do a full introduction here in a little bit. A couple quick housekeeping things. This program is actually going to be on the Josh Force YouTube channel. You can find that at Josh Force on YouTube. It's just YouTube forward slash, josh Force, and you'll actually get to see Vanessa and I hanging out here together in the office and get to see the handsome Trevor McAulder. So if you're listening to this audio program and you're not driving down the road, you may want to just switch it over and check out the video where you're going to get all of our amazing visuals, hand gestures and facial expressions.
Josh Matthews:Okay, with that said, a couple of things from the salesforcerecruitercom. We do have five open positions, excuse me, four open positions. We closed one today. But we have a solution architect role, a senior project manager role to work in health cloud. We also have a nonprofit, an NPSP, Salesforce consultant. These are all full-time roles, by the way. And then we've also got a developer role. If you live in Mexico, if you live in Mexico and you're listening to this, we do have listeners in over 79 countries across the globe. So if you're listening to this and you're a developer in Mexico, please reach out to Steven at thesalesforcerecruitercom. That's Steven with a V. That is to Steven, the only way to spell the name, and he will look after you and take care of you. So, with that said, let's launch into some quick stuff. But first, how are you doing, vanessa? I'm doing great. How's your trip to Florida so far?
Vanessa Grant:Been full of children, so it's nice to get away for a little bit and hang out with you instead. Not super different, but different in a more professional way.
Josh Matthews:Slightly more adult. Not a lot, just a little bit more adult action going on.
Vanessa Grant:I don't have to bathe you, and that's the important part.
Josh Matthews:Thank God for that, even though I could use it sometimes. So we've also got Mr Peter Ganza. How are you, buddy? I am great. How did the haircut work out?
Peter Ganza:It worked out great. I was not able to do a before and after, but I assure you I am looking fresh, okay, and Mr Anthony Rodriguez, the best chauffeur for Florida Dreamin' I've ever had.
Josh Matthews:What's up, buddy, how are you doing today? Always a pleasure to be in the presence of legends. And a big congratulations to Anthony, who recently received another promotion in his role. Anthony, how long ago did you secure your first Salesforce position?
Anthony:Well, thanks to the Salesforce Career Show, I was able to land a phenomenal junior admin position I'm sorry, junior developer position. I worked hard. It was a hard first year but I just kept growing and learning and about two months after my first year I was able to move up a little step. So you know feeling really good about it.
Josh Matthews:Well, we're all stoked for you, buddy. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Yeah, super proud of you, yeah man and we'll get to see, I hope in a couple months, out in Clearwater at Florida. Dreamin' Would that be accurate.
Anthony:Yeah, I believe so. I'm planning on it and the company is going to pay for my registration, so whoop whoop.
Josh Matthews:Okay, all right, guys. Well, with that, we're excited to introduce our amazing guest, trevor McHaldir. Trevor joins us from Ottawa, canada, and has been serving Tony Robbins' mission for over five years now. Before working with Tony Robbins, he led teams in hospitality, real estate, construction and, working with Tony Robbins, he led teams in hospitality, real estate, construction and education. He's passionate about helping professionals master their craft so that they can live life on their terms. Please give a warm welcome to Trevor.
Trevor MacCalder:Well played, well played.
Josh Matthews:You like that I do. Thank you, podtrack P4. You're the best. So for those of you who don't know, if you weren't listening at the very start of the show or you're just jumping in right now or you haven't heard me bang on about him in the past, which I have on this show, trevor's actually my personal executive coach and we've been working together. I want to say it's over three years now. It's like three years and three months or something like that.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, look, we probably talk about 30 minutes three times a month, something like that. It doesn't take long to get the help that you need with a personal coach or an executive coach, and I couldn't think of a better person to bring on this show to help you, whether you're a hiring manager, just a Salesforce career professional, or someone who's looking to break into the ecosystem or elevate your career within the ecosystem. I couldn't think of someone who, look, he's helped me so much I was pretty confident he's going to be able to help you. So, trevor, welcome to the show. What is it like to be an executive coach?
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah, thank you so much. You know, one of the greatest things about being an executive coach is I get to work with amazing people and you know this is where I pump your tires, josh, because it's really great to be able to be on someone's journey, kind of in their back pocket when they need them, just to give them a course correction and help them bring out their best and whatever that may be right, and help them move past some of the bullshit that goes on in that internal self-talk and maybe some of that doubt and that fear or whatever it may be, and be able to make an impact. So I mean, it's a pretty fucking amazing career to have and it's tons of variety, tons of variety. When I first started it was in COVID hit a couple months after joining the Robbins team and now we've got today's difficult market, depending on what that is for you. So the ups and downs, the variety, it's nonstop.
Josh Matthews:It is nonstop and I'll tell you. I'm going to give you a little success story and hopefully this makes sense for a lot of you out there. I started playing. I played maybe 10 rounds of golf 15 years ago. I started again about two and a half months ago and my first goal was to break 100. And there was no way that I was going to break 100 if I didn't go get a lesson. So I had my first lesson and it helped a little bit. Then I had my second lesson and it helped a lot and I broke 100 for the very first time on Sunday. And then I hit nine holes yesterday and I hit 44. So double that, that's an 88.
Josh Matthews:And there's no way I would have got there on my own without these tiny little adjustments. And it wasn't big, it's just a little bit of a turn of the shoulders here and move of the hands there, and I think it's such a great example. I mean, they always say golf is life and it really is. But I think it's such a really great analogy or metaphor rather, for what Trevor and people who do work like Trevor, whether they're with TRR or not, can do for your own careers, can do for your own personal well-being. Whatever the goal is that you've got, you might need some of those little adjustments. You're still going to have to do the work. Trevor doesn't do any work for me. He just helps me get pointed in the right direction and helps me to rethink some things, and it's been absolutely incredible. I attribute so much of the success of this company with the guidance that I've had from my coaching sessions with Trevor. So it's such a pleasure to have you on here Now.
Josh Matthews:Earlier today we talked a little. You and I spoke a little bit about some of the things that we were going to talk, that you were going to share. Can you give us a quick overview, just a real quick overview, so that if someone's listening and they really want to zip forward to the section that's going to make the most sense for them, then they can. And, by the way, if you're listening to the podcast on salesforcecareershowcom or on any of the other platforms, you'll be able to hopefully see the chapter. So you can just jump right into the correct part. But go ahead and share with us a quick overview of what we're going to talk about today.
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah, and it's been a long time coming. I forget how many months ago it was when we discussed, you know, being a guest speaker on this podcast so glad it's finally here. We were thinking, you know, we're kind of talking about taking it from two different angles. I guess, to keep it simple, you know, one angle being hey, if you're doing the hiring, what are maybe some perspectives or some tools for you to take into consideration to make sure that the hire sticks and you get the right one, that's right.
Trevor MacCalder:And then, secondly, if you're the one being hired and going through that process, what's it going to take to be able to continue to persevere, to get what you want in a difficult market? And so that's kind of the two angles we're going to take today, and it's probably not going to be rocket science as kind of Josh mentioned two millimeter shifts here, two millimeter shifts there, and I know that there's going to be something for everyone in what we cover today.
Josh Matthews:Absolutely. Well, let's get started. Now, one of the things that I always gravitated towards. There's certain things that Tony shares and sometimes I'm just like, yeah, I don't know if that's for me right, and other times I'm like I'm not sure if that's for me, and then I give it time and it's like, oh no, it was. And other things. You know, it's just like, hey, I know how I am, that's probably not going to be my thing.
Josh Matthews:But one of the things that absolutely I glommed onto and I really appreciated was this idea of standards and having high standards. And I can tell you, after a four-day UPW session, you know, about a year and a half ago, I came out of that experience like we are raising the standards for this company the quality of people that we place, the quality of people that are on the team, the level of standards that we expect from our marketing, from sales, from recruiting, from our social messaging, from where we sit in the and how people can take this information and apply it immediately to their hiring. And stay tuned, because we're going to have a lot of information for you folks who are looking to get a job, not just hire people.
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah, such an important element when building the right culture for your team and for your organization is going to be the standards that are upheld. And going back to UPW, you know Tony introduces it when he's talking about in the army, and I'm fairly certain it's the Navy SEALs, if you will. And when people leave the Navy SEALs they're not operating at the same level and that's because of the power of the peer group and the standard. And so when we're bringing new people into our culture and our team, hey, that's something we got to be very mindful of is, you know, are they going to contribute to the right standards that we want to have, or are they going to be, you know, bringing us in the other direction? So, one simple way to think about this and maybe you know there's, I'm sure there's many ways to think about it, but when we're talking about the tiers of standards, we can just start with gold, silver, bronze.
Josh Matthews:Oh, and I hope we get to talk about the Olympics later too, because there's some good juicy stuff there.
Trevor MacCalder:Well, isn't it funny right? Gold, silver, bronze and whoever speaks to the fourth, because they could be off by just this much.
Peter Ganza:And.
Trevor MacCalder:I'm giving a two millimeter here if you're just catching the audio. But we don't ever talk about the fourth place, and so I think that speaks to how important it is, how close it can be in regards to the distinction between these gold, silver, bronze, fourth, fifth, whatever we're not talking about. I wasn't planning on bringing in the Olympics, but I'm glad you did and maybe you think about this as your A players, your B players and your C players. I can tell you this is how we run things and this is how Tony runs things at Robbins, and so there's even a level above that, which is platinum, and I'll get to that in a moment.
Trevor MacCalder:But building off of the three layers of standards, if you will. There's going to be criteria within each one on how you assess your team currently, but also when you're bringing people on. If you're a hiring manager and you're looking to figure out who's the next great addition, you can think about it. In regards of questions, so the first question that you can start to entertain is can they do the job? Can they do the job, whatever the job is that you're looking to fill? We're talking about skill sets and core competencies, and that's an important element, right? It's not the only element, though. So, after determining, yeah, they can do the job or no, they can't, then we want to look at or ask the question will they do the job?
Josh Matthews:Yeah, that is not the same thing. I can dig ditches all day long, but I won't right.
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah.
Josh Matthews:I mean, I just won't, so don't ask.
Trevor MacCalder:I don't think I can even dig the ditch so long as you don't end up in the ditch after that's the goal.
Vanessa Grant:That's the goal that sounds more.
Trevor MacCalder:So, josh, let me ask you this then how many times does it happen where you play someone and 20, 30 days later, or maybe a little bit longer, they don't stick?
Josh Matthews:Yeah, almost never. So I'm not going to speak for myself because our standards are very high and our people last you know we beat the market by about four to six X longevity on our placements than the standard people who get hired or placement company. Placement service.
Vanessa Grant:Hey, I'll be vulnerable on this one and say I've made a couple of bad hires earlier on in my career Sure yeah, well, I have too.
Josh Matthews:I think that the standard is right around 30% of folks aren't working out in that first three to six months, and I'd say 50, it's actually 48%. Of people who get hired are generally gone within 18 months. Now, it's not always because of poor performance, right? Their mom gets sick, they have to move and go take care of them. There are lots of reasons for attrition. But you know, overall it's huge, it's expensive, it's costly, it's heartbreaking. And it doesn't matter how much a company prepares, for some reason they're never prepared for it.
Trevor MacCalder:So yeah, it's not great. And so what we're really talking about when asking that question will they do the job? Is what's their attitude and what kind of attitude do they have, and what kind of attitude do they get to have to be a part of the culture that you're building? So after we've established that, yeah, they can do the job, yeah, they've got a great attitude, Then the third question we want to be asking ourselves is are they a great team fit? Because, yeah, you can totally have a great attitude and be able to do the job with your skill set. Maybe just this isn't the right spot for you. And to your point about how costly it is and how time intensive it is, those two last questions are pretty fucking important when we're determining hey, is this the right person?
Trevor MacCalder:Are they going to be set up for success long term here. So and so.
Vanessa Grant:I know I was just gonna attitude. I think maybe it goes a little bit with that part three. So how do you separate the second question you know what's the attitude from three? Is that attitude a good fit for the team? Because I know you were talking earlier about, you know, the SEAL Team Six and the Navy and like there's also, I guess, in the teams that I'm on, like we're, you know, try to be a little bit fun and I guess maybe I don't know that many fun Navy types, but you know, so it's the. Well, you know what is what is the attitude? Because I feel like there are several types of attitudes that would be good for different roles. How do you like figure out what like? What is the? What are the questions that you're asking yourself when you're determining if it's a good attitude for the role that you're looking for?
Trevor MacCalder:You know that's a great question. I don't know if I've really dived too deep into you know what questions elicit a great attitude. What I will say as a starting point. You know, when you think about attitude because what you're saying, vanessa, is like it's elusive, like what does it mean? How do we pin this down? What's right for us? And so I've always thought of attitude, as you know, within the context of towards something. It's their thoughts, feelings and actions towards something or someone. Okay, so you know, depending on what the role is that they're going to be asked to be a part of, to own to, to really, you know, show their greatness through, you could probably reverse engineer what a winning attitude looks like in those scenarios.
Josh Matthews:Well, it's optimism, perseverance, I mean, these are some of the some of the attributes that generally work really well, unless you go to a team full of sewer rats and nervous Nellies and people who lack transparency, right, that person that would be to most A players out there, a highly desirable teammate, based on their attitude alone never mind skill set, based on their attitude alone.
Josh Matthews:And, by the way, there are a number of clients I have clients that are like Josh we don't care if they know Health Cloud, if they've done one solution, if they've architected one before, but they've got the capacity to learn a great attitude. They're willing to put in the time, they're willing to ask for help. That's what we want here. Right, and I have a mandate from a client right now, and it's funny because I'll tell the candidates, I'll say the mandate is no assholes, right, and I don't say it to everybody, but I say to everyone who I think isn't an asshole, and then they like that. They're like well, I'm not an asshole, so this must be a good team for me. And what they're aware of is that there's a standard at this organization to protect people who are jerks from coming in and being a part of the team. Right, because everybody knows what a jerk is.
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah, and you know, here's one way that you can look at it is when you're asking questions about their past experience and past teams that they've been on. You could be asking questions that allow you to figure out is this person taking ownership and responsibility for their role? Are they passing the buck? Are they starting to create some excuses and everything was external, instead of just, hey, maybe expressing some vulnerability on? This is my role and this is what I learned and this is what I could have done better, and maybe that's a bit more of a polished way to figure out if they're an asshole or not. Well, yeah, it's a count of right.
Josh Matthews:Because I think that there's a style thing here too. Right, you know someone who is a professional in Portland I'm going to generalize folks for just a moment but someone who's a professional in Portland, for instance, is going to have a different style of engaging with people, like dynamically, differently than someone who lives and works in downtown Manhattan. It's just not the same folks, and if you think it is, then you're missing something. Even though New York's filled with people who didn't grow up there, the attitude of New York often is what attracts people there, right? So, or Boston, or what have you? Right? Yeah, I'm sitting next to my New York homie right here. So, and look, there's 8 million people in the city and they don't all have the same attitude. But I think we kind of know what we mean when we're talking about business in general, like there's an ethos there that's apparent. So, yeah, you got to screen for that. But I did think of something because you were talking about, you know, the second question Trev you mentioned. Will they do it? And this is something that hiring managers can screen for. So before divulging and maybe they've seen a job description, maybe they already get a sense of what the job is, but maybe, before you go into the details of it all, you might say okay, here are the four or five primary functions of this role.
Josh Matthews:Now, we're wide open to learning which ones of these get you really excited, which ones make you roll your eyes, right, which ones do you not mind? And there are some tests for this too. I can't remember what it's called. I've taken it with my whole team and it's a working genius, so you can check out the working. Go to workinggeniuscom and it'll explain all of this stuff Primary capacities, the couple of things that you don't mind doing and the things that you really should stay away from.
Josh Matthews:Right, and so I? I had an interview just today with a senior project manager and it's like okay, so which of these things do you really love to do? Which of these things bring you energy? Give you energy, make you feel fulfilled, make you feel happy. Oh, this, this and this is like okay, which? Which of the? What are the things that absolutely drive you crazy? Well, communications with clients that are like this, or dealing with people who are like that, right, and now I get a sense of him and I get to start making some decisions, knowing my client. Is this person a good fit right. If we tell them everything that they should be for the job before we interview them, we're not going to get a clear view right. They're going to adopt what we say. Oh yeah, I work great individually and on a team. I like to type and do mundane tasks and I also like to do intricate teamwork. It's like, okay, whatever, mcdonald's, calm down, you know, don't be everything to everyone.
Trevor MacCalder:That's probably how you end up with turnover right. Is you already give? Them the answer before you give them the opportunity to provide it.
Josh Matthews:On the nose.
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah, and you mentioned working genius. That's great to use those assessments because we're big on DISC here and I don't know if your audience members are familiar with DISC. It's not that far off from Myers-Briggs Vanessa's putting it for him.
Vanessa Grant:I'm an I.
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah, and we have an expression around Robbins like I'm a recovering high eye, because if you know about what high eyes do is they usually talk about anything and everything before the topic at hand, but why that matters, whether it's DISC or Working Genius or Myers-Briggs is you.
Trevor MacCalder:You probably want to make sure you got the right person in the right seat. You're setting them up for success long term and they're going to be able to operate from. You know their nature, if you will, and DISC I'll lean on where it's dominance, influence, steadiness and conscientious. It's not to say that you know someone who's steadiness scores higher and steadiness and conscientious can't do great in a faster working environment. It's to say that it's probably not going to be in their nature and so that's going to be something to bring awareness to, because those styles are a bit slower in how they process things and how they operate and how they make decisions. So you know, it just brings awareness to making sure that we're getting the right people in there for long term and they're set up for success and they're going to do well again.
Josh Matthews:Could be working genius. Could be working genius. Could be disc. Could be myers-briggs sure, any of them. Pdg global is a is another really great. It's actually my favorite out of all of them, but it's it's hardly used, so most people don't know what they are. By the way, I just said I was an I, I'm an I in myers-briggs, but I'm a d in disc. So interesting, yeah, d is the dominant, bossy son of a bitch. That's me, yeah.
Vanessa Grant:Yeah, that's you.
Josh Matthews:Sorry, 100%.
Vanessa Grant:I'm the oversharer. Surprising.
Josh Matthews:Shocking, Shocking. Yeah, you should have heard what you told me earlier. That was not a podcast, Not podcast. Well, it's podcast worthy, just not career show worthy. We'll leave it at that, so okay, so we've got the the. We're on the third one, which is the attitude. Right?
Trevor MacCalder:Well, the second one was an attitude, the third one was team fit Team fit, thank you. And you know it's going to be obviously subjective to your team, your industry. You know, if I can speak from experience in regards to working with Robbins Research International, it's an event company. You know there's so many moving pieces and it requires a lot of flexibility. You know wherever you are on the team and your role and that's just kind of like if you're not, if you don't have that flexibility, you're not going to be a great team fit.
Trevor MacCalder:It's not to say that you're not a great person or employee. It's just like this isn't going to work for you, right? So, whatever that is for you and you mentioned the question a couple of minutes ago about which type of clients do you least enjoy working with hey, well, that might be a great question to ask if they're going to be a good long-term team fit, because these are the type of clients that the majority of the time we're working with right or in this setting or in these circumstances.
Trevor MacCalder:So, yeah, this is really important, very good, really important, very good. And so, just to kind of put that in a bow, right, all right, so you got the three criteria that make up a gold, silver and bronze. And gold is going to be your team members, and if you're hiring the people who you think will be in gold, who excel in all three right Great attitude, great skill set and a great team player your silvers are going to be great, team player, great attitude. They probably just need to brush up on some skill sets and core competencies and then your bronzes are going to be. You know, they're going to have more.
Trevor MacCalder:Maybe their attitude isn't great, they're okay with skill sets, not a great attitude and so really we want to kind of find out how coachable are they at that in that point, at that moment, and what's the plan to get them to a silver and then silvers to golds. And I touched upon platinums. Maybe I didn't say platinum, but above gold is when you get your team members that really excel. And then you can leverage them yeah exactly.
Trevor MacCalder:I love the 90s SNL.
Josh Matthews:She actually worked for my friend, by the way, that's Shannon, molly Shannon, yeah, molly Shannon. I got a buddy down the road and I was hanging out with him and he's like, hey, check out this picture. And he shows me a picture. It's Molly Shannon sitting at a desk and she was his receptionist for five years in New York City when he was running the I think it was the Park Avenue Racquet Club back in the day. So anyway, sorry, sorry, trevor.
Trevor MacCalder:That's all good.
Josh Matthews:We're interrupting a lot here, but you're doing great.
Trevor MacCalder:I think it's Sherry O'Terry, but that's a different SNL personality. Yeah, right. So your Platinums, you can leverage their skill set, their attitude, their team player-ness if that's a word to then help lead the team. You can really mobilize them to have a greater leadership role. Yeah, and that's an important piece too.
Josh Matthews:I love this there you go. I, yeah, and and that's an important piece too, I love this, I love this. I love this a lot more than a, b and c. B player, c player, because it, it, it's, you know, at least you get a medal right, like I think it's I wouldn't have expected you to to care so much about participation.
Josh Matthews:Medals josh well, I it's not. You know I'm not a huge fan of participation medals if you're over the age of 12. But yeah, you know it's still. It's still a slightly nicer way to say it. And one of the things that I was kind of picking up on here and I think you said it, you know, you expressed it is that how do I get this bronze to a silver, the silver to the gold? Right, and I personally, I'm sure so many people here have themselves found themselves, you know, really, if they do a fair self-assessment. Yeah, when I was in that job it was definitely a bronze, but I worked my tail off I got to a silver. I never was going to be a platinum there, but I moved companies, I started as a gold and now I'm a platinum, right, so you can have a story like that.
Josh Matthews:I had an employee when I was running a scientific staffing firm in Australia, in Brisbane and throughout the whole country, and I love this guy. He was a young guy, he was 22, 23, homeschooled, very bright. He'd read every. I used to read a lot. He'd read every book I'd ever read already and he was much younger than me and he was not a platinum, he was not a gold. He was a bronze all day, all day long, and within six to eight months he was gold right Because he just didn't have the right leadership previously, he didn't have the right training, he didn't have the right coaching.
Josh Matthews:For those of you who listen to this show, maybe you're on the live program right now and you're looking at the face of Steven Greger. I mean, steven is a gold, platinum guy. He got rookie of the year at Robert Half the first year that he came on board working for me. I mean, some people just have it and other people have the potential for it and you have to know which is what and you also have to really know who doesn't have potential and be happy and be happy with that Hammond-Egger silver medal person who's going to clock in, clock out, get their stuff done, but probably not go the extra mile. But they're not going to piss anybody off on the way.
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah, and I think it's a call to action of leaders.
Trevor MacCalder:you know whether you're a manager, whatever your title is, but if you're in a position to be leading these team members, to help them and be able to give feedback that you can work with. You know, and maybe it's just a simple shift in the language of gold, silver, bronze versus a, b and c, or maybe it's that there's some detail in between what makes up a gold, silver and bronze. But I think that that's our call to action is to help bring forth. Help, bring forth the best in someone, obviously when they're willing to do the work themselves and, in this context, give them a fucking roadmap on how to get there, because, you know, one of the most challenging things to overcome is ambiguous feedback. Yeah, you know, yeah, and so, yeah, that's really important, and you can probably break those down even more and I'll just leave it at that.
Josh Matthews:Well, I, I'm with you right there. Steven will recall, over one of our job boards back in the day, we had a big sign. It's a zero ambiguity, right, and you know I bang on about it all the time. Well, what else could happen? And you know, what else don't we know? And where else are they interviewing and who else are they talking to? And if this could go bad, what would that look like and how should we investigate?
Josh Matthews:Right, it's, and it's really interesting because, you know, between me and my lovely partner Casey. Casey is the embodiment of hope, right, and I am often the embodiment of de-risking and protection, right, and so it's a really good, it's a really great partnership because she keeps me, you know, hopeful and and and thinking positively and in the belief that things can be better and we can do this and this stuff can get done. And then I'm there to sort of just like make sure the door's locked and I'm not talking literally here, but you know, like making sure that the door's locked, have a, you know, an alternative backup plan if things go a little bit wonky, things like that. And so, you know, having a partnership, whether it's at work or in home or anything like that it really, you know, when you can marry those skill sets together, I think together you can achieve a lot, whether it's in your family or in your friend group or in your hobby group or really at work. You know, is figuring out who is what. And that's one of the great things too about some of these DISC surveys and BTIs and working genius. And working genius is a really easy one, I think, easier than any of them to look at.
Josh Matthews:It's like well, where in our team are we missing these skill sets? Like we don't have these skill sets at all. You know, I realized when we did ours, you know, I think 75% of us had discernment and that was like our highest genius. Discernment, that means our judgment, our ability to tell if something's good, bad or healthy, not healthy, or will work or not work. Well, duh, we're recruiters, that's our whole job. If it wasn't high discernment then we'd be up Schitt's Creek.
Josh Matthews:But then you have, on the other hand, you have wonder, potential possibility. Well, I don't sit around and do that, wondering too much, I just don't. So, and we actually don't have anyone on the team who does that too much a little bit, but not really. And so you know, figuring that out about your company, your team? Where could you shore up that help to be a little bit more balanced? And it's amazing, it's like you know, it's like having all the chemicals you need and you got this jug of chemicals that's going to make I don't know whatever liquid gold, right, but you need to put two drops of this other chemical in it for it to actually work, and so sometimes you need that on that team just to get that two drops of the chemical or two millimeter shift.
Vanessa Grant:Well, can I ask a quick question, maybe a quick question? Two millimeter shift Well, can I ask a quick question? Maybe a quick question. So, when we're talking about team fit which I think is really important are you looking for like? What do you mean by that? Because there's also there's a lot of the discussion that you know having a diverse group of people, so like is it is diverse and like okay, maybe you have a D and I and S and a C, all on your team and you, your team, and how they can all contribute in different ways, or is it more of a team fit as far as they all have similar personalities? What are the most important things that we're looking for when we're talking about team fit?
Trevor MacCalder:You know, I was privileged to be a part of a startup. It didn't start eventually, but I learned a lot from it, one of which and it wasn't a testament to who was brought onto the team, but when we were starting to place some ads for filling these roles one of the key requirements regardless of the role, whether it was now this was eventually morphed into like a social media company. Social media company and so or was going to, whether it was someone who was doing sales or account management or creating designs within branding all of which had to submit a private YouTube video of them just introducing themselves and showcasing a little bit about themselves. Now, the method behind the madness was it really doesn't matter what they say or even how they show up. This is just a test to see who's willing to get vulnerable and get out of their comfort zone because that's what we're about at this company and that's the culture we want to build.
Trevor MacCalder:So when I think of team fit, that's the first thing I think about is maybe some of the traits, if you will, of who we're looking for and we get to any of the complimentary styles or geniuses or backgrounds and experiences that go along with it. That's how I think about it and that's typically how I would kind of encourage your listeners to be thinking about it.
Josh Matthews:That's good. It sounds like you're talking about non-negotiable core values. Could be yeah, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I guess what's that? I said? I never really thought about it with that language about non-negotiable core values could be yeah, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I guess what's that?
Trevor MacCalder:I said, I never really thought about it with that language. Okay, there's a non-negotiable core values, but you know, the more I think about it, the more it fits the more it fits yeah, and that's how we know who's a good team player that's right, like it doesn't, like you're not going to have a great so.
Josh Matthews:So if you think about diversity and sorry I'm going to be pseudo-controversial here, for some people not most, but for some people okay which is the idea of so many times, when people think about diversity, about socioeconomics, they think about culture, they think about heritage, religion, skin color and things like that, and I can tell you without a doubt, in the last 25 years of doing this type of work, you know, at a variety of levels in a variety of states and countries, the diversity that has helped people the most and companies the most and teams the most, is diversity of thought. Diversity of thought. And look, if you have different thoughts because of those different religions, that different background, those cultures or shared struggles, things like that, well then, great. But it's really the diversity of thought and ways of looking at a problem or ability to identify solutions that contribute to success, much more than the fact that you know that I'm white, that Vanessa's Latina and so on, like that doesn't matter, but the fact that she's an I and I'm a D, right, that matters way more, at least in my experience. And there's something really interesting too historically, they did a lot of research on this, and it's that opposites attract, but commonalities are what keep couples together.
Josh Matthews:Okay, and I don't see why it would be any different for business teams as well. We need this on the team. We don't have that. But if there isn't enough commonality in there, you're going to struggle Long term. You're going to struggle because there's going to be different styles of communication, people won't be heard, there's going to be misunderstandings and people will feel build resentments, they'll feel dissatisfied, and on and on and on. So there has to be some of these common traits like we were talking about, like you just mentioned, which I labeled as non-negotiable values. But but that ability to be vulnerable, which includes introspection right, the ability to open up self-awareness, the ability to apologize right and to learn from one's mistakes, which means you're going to grow. So it's God, I love this stuff. I'm so glad you're here, trevor. This is awesome.
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah, I'm so, I'm so glad I am here and yeah, and, and you know, I guess I'll double down on getting under the comfort zone, because that's the examples that I've experienced the most. Now, that was with one startup company and I just got back from our annual coaches meeting and one thing that we got to do just to keep the pencil sharp was we got to go out and hit the streets and just coach someone, walk up to them and fucking ask them hey, do you have a goal or a problem that we could coach around? Oh fun, that's really uncomfortable. Yeah.
Trevor MacCalder:Or it has the potential to be right yeah, it has the potential to be. And if you're building a sales force I know this isn't necessarily all salespeople, but if that's who you're looking to hire or attract, if the ability to get rejected and still be playful with it and not take it personally is pretty important and probably the not take it personal part is pretty important, regardless of your role, so we don't catch feelings around here and we're able to work harmoniously, that's right.
Trevor MacCalder:So, yeah, yeah, all those I think would be in the team fit. Now, what team fit you're looking to create is going to be up to you and your industry and your company, and then you get to reverse engineer. What are either some examples or some questions that we can identify that help us to know at a deeper level whether this person is that?
Josh Matthews:This is great. This is great. So we've just covered how to hire. Basically, you know how to be discerning around, bringing on your team and team dynamics. Let's talk, let's switch gears a little bit to a few of those other areas such as, you know, either trying to improve one's career by leaving or going to a different place or within a company, or getting a raise, getting a promotion. You know, either trying to improve one's career by leaving or going to a different place or within a company, or getting a raise, getting a promotion. And you, you have taught me excuse me, you've taught me a number of different techniques for how to really get all the information out of my brain and into a document so that I can I can kind of work with it. I'm sure you're going to touch on that in a little bit, but how would you, how would you like to start approaching this part of our conversation as far as candidates seeking something better for themselves?
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah, I think I was reflecting on this and where to start, and the word that was showing up was confidence. Confidence and and I think that's going to have a lot of different connotations depending on whether you're already in a role and you're seeking something greater, or you're not in a role and you're seeking something greater. Maybe I'll start with that second one, because that one might be where confidence could be. You could have the most challenge with it and for your audience members there. I'm going to start off with a story and then I'm going to get them to draw something. It's going to be a story that I'm going to guess a lot of you are going to be familiar with. It's that Roger Bannister guy Speaking of white guys. He was a white guy from the UK. I forget what year this was, but he was the first person to break the four minute mile.
Josh Matthews:I want to say it was like 1913 or something. Now I got to look it up.
Trevor MacCalder:No, no, I think it was like the 50s, something like that. Was it maybe 60s? No way, yeah, check it out while I'm sharing the story now, no one.
Josh Matthews:Oh, you're so right, 1954. Yeah, I'm, I'm a big dum-dum. I must have been confusing this with some some of the the racing parts of gallipoli, the movie. Sorry, go ahead now I gotta go check out the movie.
Trevor MacCalder:But anyways, my point being, if you at him, he doesn't look that athletic, but no one prior to him had been recorded at running a four minute mile, there was, at one point, doctors believed your heart would explode, so obviously he had never done it. He had no reference of anyone else doing it. Where did this guy get the confidence to go out and do it? To go out and do it, and he's on record for talking about how, yeah, he had to do the physical training and also there was the mental rehearsal of creating that experience with depths of emotion, so that he believed it was possible. Now I know when I've had clients who have gone through you know, unfortunately, they got laid off and then they went through the interview process and it wasn't the first or the fourth or the fifth that they ended up getting the role that can shake your confidence right.
Trevor MacCalder:And so for those of you listening or watching, what I would recommend doing, just so you have the visuals, I would draw out a quadrant.
Trevor MacCalder:So you got a cross, not a crucifix, and in the top left you're going to put the word potential, and in the top right you're going to put the word potential and in the top right you're going to put the word action, bottom right will be the result, or yeah, the result, and then the bottom left will be your belief.
Trevor MacCalder:But really we're talking about the amount of certainty that you hold and you know, maybe you're heading out there and you got your confidence a little rattled because you got let go and chapter ended and so you're going to go tap into some of your potential and dust off the CV and get back out there and have some interviews and they may not go the way you anticipate. And there's going to be kind of two things that can happen is one, you can internalize that to create less certainty and weaken your belief about your ability to make it happen and be a great team player. Or you can do the opposite and you can kind of extract the positive feedback from the result, if it's not the one you anticipate, and get back out there and strengthen the certainty and the belief to go tap into even more potential.
Josh Matthews:Because what can happen-? So how does one do that?
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah. So I think the first step and this is where, if you've ever heard Tony speak, he uses a reference called the tyranny of the how. How does one do that? How does one get their teeth kicked in and still stay confident, right, or whatever? This is to you, and the challenge with the tyranny of the how is sometimes you don't know how. If you don't know how, then you kind of feel you're probably not going to move forward, or if you do, it's not going to be with a whole lot of certainty and confidence.
Trevor MacCalder:So the starting point is going to be knowing what your outcomes are, reverse engineering with that outcome, that result, in mind, and that's great, because we need clarity for when we're articulating that. Whether it's the role, whether it's the income, whether it is both of those. What's going to really anchor that in, though, and really make the difference, is your reasons why. What's your purpose, right, and what are those reasons behind why you're willing to pick yourself up, knock the dust off and brush it off and get back out there, and maybe it's something you know. For those of you who have children, that's some easy leverage there for you, right? It's going to be really important that you have a deep list of the reasons why and that you get emotionally connected with those before we ever get into the how.
Trevor MacCalder:So kind of tying it back to that cycle of success or success cycle sorry, which is that quadrant. I had you write it down is going back to Roger Bannister. We've got to condition, we've got to condition the confidence and the certainty before and during the whole process so that we're not waiting for the external to give it to us. We're creating it internally and from there we can take these. If it's a no here, no there, you can take the constructive feedback and it's not so personal. And then you can go and continue to double down on your belief that the right job is out there. What's next is always better and I'll borrow one from Les Brown's book, or Les Brown Brown in general is it's not over until I win.
Josh Matthews:I love that.
Trevor MacCalder:So I got to get back out there. And confidence isn't something that we just trip over when we're walking down the sidewalk, and it's not something that falls out of the sky either and hits us on the shoulder. Neither is emotion or or sorry, overwhelm or depression, or anxiety or any of these emotions that we may experience there's patterns, patterns, and it can be cultivated one way or the other.
Trevor MacCalder:It can be called you got it and you know I say this to a lot of people and it shows up to what I'm about to reference here is and it's a tony quote, you know we often have a highway paved to pain and a dirt road to pleasure, right which, if you think about it, we probably want the opposite. But how the fuck does that happen? It's usually just because and if you think about the metaphor a highway takes infrastructure, it takes intention and it takes a lot of hours to put it right. Said differently, repetition. So we've got to put in the repetition to build the dirt road, the pleasure to be a highway.
Trevor MacCalder:And how we do that is going to be in three key areas, because these emotions don't just happen. Confidence doesn't just I don't get to, as your executive coach, wave a wand and there you go, you have it. It's going to start with the patterns you run with your physiology, and then it's going to start with the patterns that you run with your focus and your belief, and then it's going to be the patterns you run with your language and meaning. So the quickest way to change how you feel and this is one of Tony's, you know, biggest gifts and how he simplifies this is motion equals emotion. You've got to work your body because there's obviously some chemical responses that happen when you get a good workout in. You and I were talking about this not that long ago, josh. Which, hey, just go lift some weights, it's going to feel better. Yeah, it's going to have a shift, right, you know? Kudos to Josh here. Everyone drop him a congratulations. He broke 100.
Vanessa Grant:Thanks guys, thanks guys.
Trevor MacCalder:You got to work the physiology. You got to work the physiology and you know, there's some Harvard School, harvard Business School studies out there where, if you just held a Superman or Wonder Woman pose out there for an extended period of time two, three minutes you're going to have a decrease in your cortisol, an increase in your testosterone, which means more confidence, less stress.
Josh Matthews:This is power posing guys and just Google it, watch the TED Talk on it. I used to do this, I still do this. Sometimes I teach people to do this. I recommend people strike a power pose. There's nothing to it Can you strike one.
Vanessa Grant:Yeah, yeah, we are on camera, yeah.
Josh Matthews:Here's. One of my favorites is the Captain Morgan. It's kind of hard to see. I'm in short. So the Captain Morgan chin up. There's the boardroom. The boardroom one looks like this You're at your. You know, I get all the way up, chin up, arm spread. There's always a tilt to the chin. Sorry, I'll get back to the mic. There's always a tilt to the chin. Right, you can do. You can do the Usain lightning bolt. That works great and you can even just hold your arms straight up with your chin up and it doesn't hurt to smile. You know, feel like you just succeeded at something. You hold that and your testosterone comes up and your cortisol goes down and you'll actually lower your voice and you'll relax because you're releasing a lot of the tension in your throat and throughout your whole body. So it's a really it's an amazing study. In fact, the whole study was done with power posing around how successful people were doing interviews. The whole study was based on that. So definitely check that out.
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah, yeah and super simple to do, easy to do, easy not to do. It makes a difference, and one that I really love is emotional freedom tapping, and you can look into that. But again, that's just a different way to work your physiology, to let go of some of these emotions that might one hold us back or to create confidence, which is how I got started on this. So then we get to the beliefs right and the beliefs that you hold about yourself, your ability to get the job, to crush the job, to earn more money. That all matters and where you put your focus matters right, because where focus goes, energy flows. So are you focused on the last interview or being present with this interview?
Josh Matthews:Yeah, are you focused on? I'm not enough and it'll never work. Or I absolutely can do this. Fuck imposter syndrome, let's rock. You know there's a real distinct difference with both of those and they're both accessible to us every minute of every day. It's just the practice to get there faster. I mean, I just went through this. I'm going to do another dumb golf analogy, but I just went through this. I just told everyone about my great nine hole score. Right, I got a 44. I didn't tell you what my first nine holes were, because it was horrible, because I'd forgotten everything. My coach told me it was so bad.
Josh Matthews:I stopped keeping score because keeping score was bringing my mood down and I just thought, okay, this is a learning experience. I came out here to get some exercise. I came out here to play a game for an hour and a half or whatever, and just have a little bit of fun. Two hours have a little bit of fun, and here I am not enjoying it. Well, screw that, that's ridiculous. So I'm going to stop keeping score. I'm going to take some weird shots, I'm going to try some different things, I'm going to get my wedge work in. I'm just going to have fun with it and then maybe I'll relax enough so I can remember how to actually do this thing. And by the time I got to the eighth, ninth hole I was like, oh, I'm not doing, I forgot I'm not doing this on my swing, started doing it and then, boom, everything came together.
Josh Matthews:So it's really so often you just have to be like number one, forgive yourself for not succeeding, like it's okay, buddy, it's okay kid, you'll be all right, get them next time. But you will only get them next time if you can recognize that. One, it's not the end of the world. Two, there's something to learn here. Three, you don't even have to forgive yourself because there's nothing to be ashamed of. There's a difference between having to forgive yourself and just letting something go right so that you can make room for the good stuff. You got to get out the bad stuff, make room for the good stuff. You know you got to get out the bad stuff, make room for the good stuff. We don't. Our tanks are only so large, you know, I got 15 gallons on that car. I got 25 gallons on that car. One's going to go further than the other, you know, and we all have different tanks, but you got to make sure that you're emptying out some of the garbage so you can put the good stuff in and hold onto it, yeah and yeah.
Trevor MacCalder:And it's so easy to delete all the things that we've been great at over the course of our lifetime, right? So if we're talking about building confidence and focus matters as much as it does, which we're talking about here then I bet there's one, two or three examples in your life of something that you are proud of, A moment when you showed up with confidence and you crushed it, whatever that is to you. And, yeah, you got to be intentional with starting to put together this, this list of of your successful moments when you showed up with the confidence you needed to do the thing so that you have go to reference points and it's not just made up bullshit. You know, you hear Tony talk about affirmations. I'm happy.
Trevor MacCalder:I'm happy, I'm happy, I'm confident, I'm happy, I'm happy, I'm happy, I'm confident, I'm confident. Well, fuck, your body knows when you're lying yeah but we start getting some reference points in there.
Josh Matthews:Maybe you start to believe it and you start to feel it combined with the power pose and an anchoring too right, because I thought I don't know if I've told you this yet, but I thought of you after I finished my round on Sunday. I I texted, I texted Casey, I jumped in the car, I texted Casey and then I put on some music. It was Tool, who I like quite a bit, and it was one of their, you know, and I was like seizure or something like that. It was a, you know, a pretty heavy song, but it didn't matter. I was like I don't care, I'm just going to play, cause I don't listen to this song and I don't listen to them too much, I'm just going to play this, and I'm going to play it really loud, because I was in such a great mood.
Josh Matthews:I felt so happy, so confident and thrilled that I achieved this goal I'd set a couple months ago. And then I thought of you. That's right, dude, anchor it. Trevor would tell you to anchor this moment right now, and I promise you I could go to that song right now and I'll feel great. It doesn't matter what they're singing about, but I'll feel great because I anchored that moment in time. And so that's another skill that people can do.
Vanessa Grant:Yeah, and you know I'll even throw in, and I know I've mentioned this tip before, but I think it's a good one. So I have on my WhatsApp, on my phone, somebody created well, payman Lam created Vanessa's Joybox, it was. She created a WhatsApp group, invited me and then immediately left and said anytime somebody says something nice about you or there's something that you want to keep, put the screen capture in your joy box. So I've got every time somebody says something nice to me on LinkedIn, every time my boss sends me a nice email, it's all here. So when I'm not feeling great, I just scroll up and go. You know what I mattered to somebody that day, or I did something good that day, or the project that I worked on two months ago mattered to somebody, I added value to somebody's life, and that's the kind of stuff that gets me going on the days that I'm like oh.
Josh Matthews:I love that, and Pei was just listening. I think she had to dodge out, but she was on the show for a little while here.
Vanessa Grant:Yeah, and the other thing that I just wanted to touch on, just like you were talking about, it's the that mindset of it's not that I'm bad at something, it's just that I'm not good at it yet, and it's something that I try to instill in my kids. You know it's you're not bad at math, you're just not. You're just not there yet, you know. So it's a work in progress and part of that is the practicing. I talk about writing Salesforce user stories all the time. My first hundred user stories were garbage like, they were terrible, but I kept going, partly because they were paying me to keep going, but also they needed to be good so that we could deliver good projects. So I kept working at it, kept working with other people and getting feedback on the things that I was doing and eventually now I'm speaking internationally on user stories because but but I learned a lot from those first hundred that were not great, that's right, I'll tell you.
Josh Matthews:I mean, we and we talk about this a lot on the show it is, you know. You know something's going to be a challenge when you're going to want to quit and then you don't right? That to me is the definition of a challenge Anything that you do where you won't want to quit or give up at some point. I don't think they call that a challenge. It might not be a walk in the park, but it's not really a challenge, right? And so, whatever you're doing and do you remember that great story that Dylan Ferguson shared with us a few weeks ago?
Josh Matthews:Dylan came on to talk a little bit about our talk about salespeople and BD and business development, and he shared this story about growing up on a like right next to a buffalo ranch, right, and how cows, during a major storm, will all huddle together, put their heads together and they just kind of hang out.
Josh Matthews:Most herd animals do this, he said, but buffaloes do something totally different they run towards the storm. They run towards the storm because then they're going to get through it faster. And when you attack a challenge the thing that you're probably going to eventually want to quit you can get through it faster if you really go for it and go for it hard, and whether it's interviewing, hiring user stories, getting good at being an amazing executive coach, it doesn't matter what it is, but if you just run towards the challenge full steam, you will get through it so much faster and then you're going to reap those benefits for so much longer. Right? Someone who takes six months to get their first Salesforce admin certification versus the person who takes three years? Right? I mean, you got to pick which one would you hire?
Trevor MacCalder:yeah yeah, great team, fit be the buffalo right be the buffalo um to talk to talk to talk. Also, you know, this is on that note we we often suffer most in our imagination than we do in reality, right? So, whether that's josh is holding up a buffalo, my dad may be this.
Peter Ganza:yeah, yeah, that's, josh is holding up a buffalo.
Trevor MacCalder:My dad made me this yeah yeah, that's some good woodwork. So bring it back to the other piece of the recipe that creates your sorry ingredient, to the recipe of how you're feeling emotionally and, you know, if you want to create confidence or whatever it is that's going to help you to enjoy the process of getting on with your next team, be very mindful of the questions you ask yourself. You know, and thinking is often just the process of asking and answering questions, and at Tony's event date with destiny, he brings up what he calls a primary question, which is, you know, a question that you ask yourself predominantly. The majority of the time, you may be aware of it, you may, you may not, and there are some dark ones, like what's wrong with me and hey, you ask the question, you're going to find an answer right.
Trevor MacCalder:so when you're going through or when you want to intentionally decide how you're going to show up, you probably want to have some intentional questions to ask yourself that can bring you to this place emotionally, as you anchor it with songs or your list of wins and when people said nice things, so that you can go there with what you focus on, which is going to create what you feel in addition to your physiology. So that's definitely some gold there for all the listeners to be able to make some necessary shifts so they interview better, so they make an impression better, so they build rapport with greater ease and maybe most importantly, they just show up as their authentic self.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, and it sounds like with every good question that you're asking yourself where you can give yourself a positive response, you're putting another brick on that highway to happiness as well. Amen, well said.
Vanessa Grant:Good to bring it back.
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah and hey, you got to practice it with that building the highway to pleasure. So for me, I think confidence comes from experience and preparation. So bring it back to Roger Bannister. Yeah, you can create the experience in your mind. It may not be the same as going out and run the four minute mile, but it's going to help. And then you can put in the work and the prep to, with certain questions or scenarios you might be put into, so that you're prepared as best to your ability. So you can just be present instead of in your head trying to find the right answer. And that never really comes across as probably being someone's first choice.
Josh Matthews:Well, it sounds like Roger Bannister gets the gold medal here, possibly really the platinum medal, because he broke a standard and it's incredible how the record started to fall right. I mean, one of the best things about the Bannister story and sorry again, I clearly got that date wrong but one of the best things is you know how fast once someone breaks a record, something does something that no one thinks is possible, how fast that record starts to fall, or how many other people start to achieve it. Very quickly Because that one individual platinum banister gives them that confidence that clearly it can be done. Look, I just did it right. And now all those other people they had the silver medal or the gold medal, and you know well, I'll just say, yeah, they had the silver medal, they had the ability to. You know well, I'll just say, yeah, they had the silver medal, they had the ability to and they were willing to do it. But they didn't necessarily have the belief that they could do it. They didn't have the attitude to get to the gold. Now they don't get to be the platinum, because Roger Bannister is the platinum one. He's the one who broke the record right.
Josh Matthews:But it's pretty incredible how fast that stuff, how, how fast records fall once it's broken, and then again how quickly the limits get imposed on what's actually humanly possible there, like you. Just you know whether you, whether you watch the Olympics and you watch someone beat someone by 0.005, you know, by five thousandths of a second on a hundred meter or whatever it was right, or by a two millimeters on a hammer toss or what have you. We see it all the time in F1, right, it's some, some qualifier you know gets pole positioned by one one thousandth of a second. I mean you can't even. I mean we can't even fathom what that time is. I don't know what that is, you can't even count it. It's too short, so it's pretty incredible.
Trevor MacCalder:Super incredible, I think at the end of that year that Bannister did it, five other people did it, and now we've got high school athletes doing it, and so he definitely gets the platinum in that regard. So for those of you who are out there looking for your next career move whatever that may be, you know my advice would be to bring it to your rituals and your routines, Routines being your morning routine in the sense of how you do before you actually get go into the interview, so that you can just have one last power move, as Tony would put it, or something you do that just allows you to be grounded, present and aware of what's happening, so that maybe that is the difference that separates you from the others and gets you that next great position with that great team, and it goes a long way.
Josh Matthews:That's so awesome, trev, I'm so glad you're on the show. I want to give a moment and just see if we've got any hands in the audience. Who would like to come forward and ask Trevor a question, whether that's you? Okay, peter, go ahead, ask away.
Peter Ganza:Hey, trevor, great stuff. I just wanted to know as a fellow Canadian. Peter, go ahead Ask away. Hey, trevor, great stuff. I just wanted to know as a fellow Canadian would you consider the Jose Bautista bat flip a power pose?
Trevor MacCalder:Yes.
Peter Ganza:Yes, I would.
Trevor MacCalder:Now, if I was from Texas and a fan of the Rangers, maybe not, but I'm with you on that one, peter. That was a memorable moment and, yeah, definitely could be your power pose.
Josh Matthews:Thank you All right, Any other questions? Guys, right now we're kind of a semi-light audience, which is really normal this time of year. But a quick reminder to folks go to salesforcerecruitercom Get your questions answered. Salesforce sorry, not Salesforce. Salesforce. Career Show Sorry, too many websites, too many domains. Go to salesforcecareershowcom and if you scroll down you can just type in your question and we'll get it answered.
Josh Matthews:We made a big point of mentioning on the last podcast, which actually just got launched yesterday, that Vanessa and I really missed the Q&A that we experienced during our clubhouse years, aka COVID years. Right, We'd get 70, 80, 90, 100 people on those shows. Everyone was home, no one was working and we just spent two, sometimes even three hours just fielding questions. It's a great time. We understand not everybody can make it to the live program here, but we definitely want to be able to answer your questions Now.
Josh Matthews:I've probably got about 30 or 40 or 50 questions from people on LinkedIn right now about their personal stuff. I'm not going to answer that stuff live. If they want that answered live and directly, happy to do it and happy to keep you anonymous, but I just don't have enough hours in the day to respond and answer every. You know, look at everybody's resume and tell them what they should do with their life. So if you'd like some help with that, then we encourage you to come to the live programs. It's two, 30 Pacific, five, 30 Eastern, here on X. If you're not on X, boohoo to you. You should get on it. It's super easy. If you don't want to uh deal with all the Twitter, Roddy, I don't you don't have to participate, you can just be on here just to be on this show. It's every two weeks. What do you think there, Ms Vanessa, Ms Grant.
Vanessa Grant:About what Questions?
Peter Ganza:Whatever I?
Vanessa Grant:think questions are great. I miss them. I actually do have a question. Okay, let's go, or do I have questions?
Josh Matthews:I don't even know where.
Vanessa Grant:I was going with that.
Peter Ganza:So, trevor, what's your take? And talk a little bit about failure, right, when something doesn't work out right.
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah, I mentioned that I was a part of a startup company that didn't start, so there were a lot of lessons learned from that and I think, you know, maybe the cliche thing is we learn more from our losses versus our wins, and I think that to be true, because, one, we get to course correct, but two, I think we learn more about ourselves and how we pivot from there. And that's been my experience and and so I guess I'm I'm a big fan of of napoleon hill and think and grow rich, and and I'm always reminded of three feet from gold in the chapter on persistence and how that story turned out. So, you know, failure, I think, only happens when you quit and you give up. That's my take on it.
Trevor MacCalder:The rest is just learning lessons, and when you do actually learn from those lessons, that's the greatest gift. It can be challenging to perceive it that way, so that's where you really get to stretch yourself to one process and the emotion that would prevent you from seeing it as a gift or or seeing the lessons learned. And then you get to kind of go back and and, as I put it, you know, give it a blameless autopsy, like okay, just taking the emotion out of it. You know, how did I show up or what was my role here, what would I do different, you know, because it's all kind of about awareness for the most part, usually is my take on it.
Josh Matthews:I think that's a great answer.
Peter Ganza:I was just going to say I thought I was the only one who still listens to Napoleon Hill. Everyone should listen to Napoleon Hill.
Vanessa Grant:I read that book last year. Everyone should listen. I actually read that one.
Josh Matthews:I've never read it. Yeah, think and Grow Rich. Yeah, Think and Grow Rich.
Peter Ganza:Maybe I did read it Actually if you want. Maybe somebody take a second and maybe even Trevor just describe what Napoleon Hill did and kind of what that actually is.
Josh Matthews:Well, I think we'll leave that to another show, because he's here representing.
Peter Ganza:Tony.
Josh Matthews:Robbins' research today and I think that's plenty for the audience for one episode, but it sounds like a great book and certainly someone good to follow.
Trevor MacCalder:It is.
Josh Matthews:I can second that, yeah man, that yeah man. So I'd love to leave some folks with with one of my favorite things that I learned through through TRR and also, and then got to actually practice. You know, learn in a practical way through you. Actually, I think I just learned it through you, and you were talking earlier about getting away from the how do I right and get to the get to the question of well, what do I, you know like, what's the goal that I want?
Vanessa Grant:It's writing your own user story. It's like don't solution it. Just who am I, what do I want and why? What is the value? That's going at that's right.
Josh Matthews:But there's this other part that comes after. You define that and it's my favorite part and I think it's going to resonate with a lot of our audience, because some people will do for themselves, because they want to do for themselves, and other people have a personality style. I'd go so far as to say about half of the people walking on earth have a personality style where they will not do something, they will put others before them, right, and that will limit their ability to pave that road to pleasure, right. And the question is, when we're rolling through an RPM, which is a rapid planning method and this is a technique you can look it up. You can attend one of Tony's sessions, you can hire an executive coach, including Trevor or other people like Trevor who are skilled and trained in these techniques, and it's who else will be affected by this.
Josh Matthews:This, to me, was the most powerful thing in the world and I remember we were doing something. It was one of our very first things. It was just like, okay, I've got to get, I need it. The goal was to get clarity and insight into my accounting practices. You know I didn't have at the time the best bookkeeper. I'm a real dumb dumb when it comes to QuickBooks, the whole thing was just like a fog for me. It was the very first thing that we worked on and it's like, who else does this affect? And man, I mean it was. You know, it was Casey, it was my kids, it was my employees, it was my customers, it was the candidates. I mean it was a you know, this ripple effect in this crystal clear pond that just radiated out and it's like, oh my God, I had I'd never really considered how some of these challenges are creating massive risk for me and how that risk could really negatively impact not just me but all of these other people that I care about and want to help. And so that question, who else does this affect? Like, when I achieve this, or if I don't achieve this, who's affected and what happens? Or if I do achieve this, who's affected and what happens? And that can really, for me, it was the number one thing that anchored the desire, put my back against the wall and made me have to do things I didn't want to do or maybe I wasn't confident in, or maybe I wasn't skilled in right, I had to get uncomfortable to get through it all. I had to. Basically, you know to Tonka this shit up and run to the storm. You know and I know we're just talking accounting practices, but there've been a lot of different things, that we've RPM together or I've RPM on my own, and this is the question that that matters most.
Josh Matthews:So, as you're going through your own world, in other words, let's say you are a candidate and I'll just capitalize on Trevor's example Maybe you've had four or five interviews and now your confidence is shaken. Right, if you start with, okay, well, what do I want? Well, the goal is a job. Okay, well, why? Right, and then, so what do I need to do about that? You know what are the potential outcomes? What am I going to investigate? You know who else am I going to get involved in this? Where? What am I going to investigate? You know who else am I going to get involved in this? Where can I make investments? And sometimes we all know it's not always the how, it's the who. Who can help me with this right? Who can get me going? And I love that because, gosh, when I started this company, it's like oh, now I have to learn marketing, linkedin, automation. You know, I already knew recruiting and sales. That's fine. I got to learn taxes. I got to learn all this other stuff. It's like, no, you don't do it, find out who does that already, and just you do the thing that you do and then you get these other people helping you. So everything that I've ever gleaned from Tony Robbins or from my experience working with Trevor, has just been absolutely amazing.
Josh Matthews:For those of you who don't know, I was 30 years old. Was I 30? 29 years old? It was two in the morning, two or three in the morning on a weekend. I couldn't sleep, and this is 1990. Okay, so we're going back a ways and one of Tony's infomercials came on and I didn't really have 200 bucks for the program, but I was like, whatever, I put it on a card and I got it and then I worked the. I don't even think I worked the whole 30 days. I got so much out of dedicating two solid weeks, maybe an hour a day, to the program and had this monster year where it was like, okay, I tried scuba diving, bought a house, had a baby, tried snowboarding and started a band right, like it was this monster. Oh, and I quit cigarettes and I ran a marathon, by the way, too. So like it was a monster year. Now that monster year came from me sitting in my little office in my little apartment by myself with a little tape player and a little spiral notebook just handwriting this stuff out. So if maybe you can't afford a coach, well, you could probably afford the CDs or the MP3s and things like that. You could get the workbook. You could work on this stuff.
Josh Matthews:Not everybody's in a financial position where you can make the investment to have someone who's going to really help you with monster success like Trevor here, but you can invest in a really small little thing just to give you a little bit of an edge and have one of the best years of your life. And I'm not just talking about happiness here, I'm talking about actual fulfillment. Right, happiness and fulfillment are not the same thing, right, they're just not right. And fulfillment. I'll take fulfillment over happiness any day of the week. I absolutely will, because happiness, I think, tends to be a little bit short-lived, but fulfillment, you can carry that with you all day long in your heart. It's a different place that you carry fulfillment.
Josh Matthews:So I just wanted to say thank you, trevor, for one being you, for helping me over the last three plus years, for being on this show for being an incredible support system to me. You've helped me, but you've also been one of those drops in that clear pond and it's been a ripple effect to help support my employees, my clients, my candidates, even the folks that listen to this podcast. I owe a lot to you. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for all of that and also for being on this program. It's been a really special event.
Trevor MacCalder:Yeah, thank you. One of the questions I think Vanessa asked at the beginning or maybe it was you, Josh on what it's like to be in this role. I think that kind of summarizes it perfectly, in the sense of we're on the line three times a month. 30 minutes is not a whole lot of fucking time, but the ripple effect that comes from asking some great questions and, in your position, Josh, of being open to answer them and go do something with it, and then this podcast was born out of it.
Trevor MacCalder:You're in Florida that was born out of it, where you've taken the company and the business has been born out of it.
Trevor MacCalder:So it's just been an absolute pleasure to be on the journey with you and I hope that there's for those of you who are listening that I know that there's a gold nugget within what was shared. I hope that you pick it up and run with it Because, like Josh was saying, whether it's an audio, a book, a coach or an event, it's what you apply that's going to change your life. Simply put, Absolutely.
Josh Matthews:And for anyone who's curious, trevor did write me right before the show and he said hey, how colorful language can you use? And I said full rainbow. So there you go.
Trevor MacCalder:Well, I work with Tony Robbins, right, and so some of the things I share with clients, I'm like, okay, make sure your kids aren't around unless this is what you want them to hear, yeah right because it gets real colorful and and I appreciate the freedom to do it.
Trevor MacCalder:Speaking of books, though he he always references the taboo of language. I think that's it roughly, but words of meaning and also words can shock you out of your trance so that you actually maybe start to listen to what's happening on this podcast when someone says fuck this or, or shit or anything else I'll leave it at that on the rainbow.
Josh Matthews:Come on, give us some more. Give us some more trevor, shock us.
Trevor MacCalder:No, don't no okay but absolute pleasure to be here. Uh, vanessa, thank you, josh. Thank you everyone who's listening. Thank you, josh. Thank you Everyone who's listening. Thank you, and yeah, happy to help.
Josh Matthews:All right, my friend. Well, I'll be talking to you very soon. You have a wonderful week and a wonderful and even better weekend, thanks to our audience. It's great to see you guys. Clive John Gilmartin, thanks for joining us today, and all of our audience that we can't see right now, and our podcast listeners.
Josh Matthews:Last quick request If you enjoy this program, if you're getting some value out of it, you can help us an awful lot, and it's super simple. You just give us a thumbs up and give us a little comment. If you see one of my posts marketing one of our live shows, just go ahead and share that. Give that a thumbs up, drop in a little comment too. I know the like subscribe, share thing is a little bit overdone. It's on every single YouTube video that you ever see. It's on almost every single podcast too. But there's a reason for it, because there's an algorithm and when the algorithm gets used appropriately, more people get the kind of help that they need. So if you are in the Salesforce ecosystem and you know that you're not the only one that benefits from this show, make sure that you spread the word, spread the message.
Josh Matthews:We're trying to grow our audience and we're trying to grow it in a massive way because we believe that we can help a lot of people.
Josh Matthews:And please understand something really important about this program it's one of those programs that not everybody's going to listen to all day long, every day of their life. Right, a lot of people will follow and listen to Joe Rogan every single day of the week, or at least once a week, but people, once they get their careers going and they're feeling pretty good, they're going to drop off. So that means that we've got to replace it with other folks that need the help, and I promise you, I can tell you from my inbox a lot of people need the help right now. So please share this podcast and I hope to see you at Dreamforce. If you're going to be at Dreamforce and you'd like to come and say hi to me, go ahead and drop me a little message on LinkedIn, or you can shoot a message via salesforcecareershowcom. Vanessa will be there as well. I don't know if we're going to record a live podcast or not, but we'll probably do something with it out there.
Vanessa Grant:Don't you think yeah?
Josh Matthews:Yeah, sweet. Okay, folks, adios, bye for now.
