Ever wondered how to strike the perfect balance between pushing for workplace innovation and respecting the status quo? Join us, Josh Matthews, alongside the insightful Fred Cadena and Peter Gansa, as we navigate this tightrope and more in our latest Salesforce Career Show. We're exchanging holiday stories, dissecting AI fatigue, and revealing how golden tickets of communication can transform your meetings from time-wasters to productivity powerhouses – all live and unfiltered in an 'ask us anything' format that's as unpredictable as it is enlightening.
Hold onto your Dreamforce badges; we're not just swapping conference war stories but offering real, actionable advice on how to reap the benefits of Salesforce events, whether you're a seasoned attendee or it's your first rodeo. From intimate Dreamin' conferences to the grandeur of Dreamforce, learn how to cultivate connections and carve a niche as a speaker. Plus, we'll explore the Salesforce Marketing Cloud's goldmine of opportunities and why passion might just be your most lucrative asset.
Cap off the mind-meld with a candid look at the future of careers in the age of AI – will MBAs or engineers rule the roost? We're pulling back the curtain on this debate and touching on how personal growth, like mastering the art of sleep, can supercharge your career trajectory. Rest easy; Vanessa will be back next episode, but until then, let us fill your earbuds with the latest Salesforce wisdom that's sure to spark your next breakthrough.
Ever wondered how to strike the perfect balance between pushing for workplace innovation and respecting the status quo? Join us, Josh Matthews, alongside the insightful Fred Cadena and Peter Gansa, as we navigate this tightrope and more in our latest Salesforce Career Show. We're exchanging holiday stories, dissecting AI fatigue, and revealing how golden tickets of communication can transform your meetings from time-wasters to productivity powerhouses – all live and unfiltered in an 'ask us anything' format that's as unpredictable as it is enlightening.
Hold onto your Dreamforce badges; we're not just swapping conference war stories but offering real, actionable advice on how to reap the benefits of Salesforce events, whether you're a seasoned attendee or it's your first rodeo. From intimate Dreamin' conferences to the grandeur of Dreamforce, learn how to cultivate connections and carve a niche as a speaker. Plus, we'll explore the Salesforce Marketing Cloud's goldmine of opportunities and why passion might just be your most lucrative asset.
Cap off the mind-meld with a candid look at the future of careers in the age of AI – will MBAs or engineers rule the roost? We're pulling back the curtain on this debate and touching on how personal growth, like mastering the art of sleep, can supercharge your career trajectory. Rest easy; Vanessa will be back next episode, but until then, let us fill your earbuds with the latest Salesforce wisdom that's sure to spark your next breakthrough.
And now the number one audio program that helps you to hire, get hired and soar higher in the Salesforce ecosystem. It's the Salesforce career show with Josh Matthews and Vanessa Grant.
Josh Matthews:Well, welcome back everybody to what is now season two, episode one of the Salesforce career show. I'm your host, josh Matthews. I run the Salesforce recruitercom, and my wonderful co-host, vanessa Grant, is unable to join us this week, but she'll be back next week when we've got a special guest. So make sure you tune in next week. Same bat time, same bat channel. We are here with some regular, regular, regularly awesome people like Fred Cadena and Peter Gansa. You guys know them from the show. They're regular panelists.
Josh Matthews:We've got Jesse from my team listening. Casey is listening. We've got let's see. We've got Ty here. We've got Rob here. We've got a bunch of folks, and what we're going to do this show is just do a little bit of an ask me anything or ask us anything program. Okay, so no special guest. We've already done the year in review and expectations for 24. This is just our kickoff, like, let's get rocking, so let's do that. Let's do that right now. So go ahead and if you have a question, raise your hand and I'll call on you. It's that simple and we'll be greeted by me and our panelists. While we wait for that, let's go in and ask Peter how Peter's doing now. His holiday was, hey, peter.
Peter Ganza:Hey, Josh, it was actually really good compared to last year. I actually took some time off. What Struggling? Well, I mean I'm doing my own thing, right? You know the drill. So when there's some downtime, right, you get inspired and it's not like there's anything else going on.
Peter Ganza:Anyway, I did take a couple of days off. It was actually more difficult than I thought, but in the end it was what I needed and actually did do quite a bit of work and it totally paid off. I just had literally the first day of 2024. Was my best start of any month, any year, any week.
Josh Matthews:I just need every week. That's amazing, buddy. Congratulations on kicking it off right. Big kudos to you. Let's get a little clap in the background. Oh, that ain't a little clap. That's not a little clap, that's a big applause. And, fred, we caught up just before we kicked off the recording here. But go ahead and tell us how your holiday was as well.
Fred Cadena:Oh, it was fantastic. It was relaxing, didn't do much of anything, I think. I hosted a holiday party for some local friends on the 16th, and then I'm the Slack community group leader here in Omaha and I hosted a Slack and Salesforce holiday party that following Tuesday, and then I really didn't do anything for the last two weeks of December.
Josh Matthews:So it was incredible. No complaints. Good for you, man, well done, and that's what it's for. And we've got our friend Ty. What's up, ty?
Tyler Zika:Hey, josh, happy new year to you. Happy new year to you, great audio and I hope the tech gods will bless this space. I know Twitter is not perfect and sometimes you're a mess.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, thanks, man. And this is Tyler Zeke. Are you still out in San Diego? Okay, so I've known Ty for several years. Thanks for jumping on the show, as you do quite frequently, and yeah, we've been plagued with some tech issues Most of them are my fault, quite honestly. I got a new iPhone, 13 or whatever. It is 15. I don't even know what it, but the model is it a 15? Are the 15s out? Oh well, then that's what I've got. And then I press the wrong button. It's like is this a headphone? I'm like this isn't headphones into my podcast machine, and then it just disregarded it. So that's what happened on the last program. But we've got that all well in hand right now. So, ty, you raised your hand. What would you like to talk about?
Tyler Zika:Hopefully not AI, but my question is related to AI, josh. What is your feeling about how people are responding to it? I feel like there's some fatigue a little bit, as a developer and architect. There's just so many more ways to gather information now with it. I just want to know your thoughts and maybe what you've heard from other people.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, no, that's a yeah, sure thing. It's a really good point. I'll be honest, I haven't heard like too much feedback, except for when people are piping up on this show or on Fred's show called Banking on Disruption, where we've talked about AI in the past too. What I can tell you that I've noticed is that there's only fatigue for bad AI, right, you guys heard me I don't know if it was like when we started recording or right before that just sort of talking about travel and travel fatigue and how I wish it was the 80s, like traveling was a lot nicer, it wasn't as easy or it wasn't as crowded. Like you just kind of showed up, sat down, got a hot meal, it was easy, right, we only get travel fatigue when things are shitty.
Josh Matthews:We get AI fatigue when AI is just not making, it's just not doing or communicating what it whoever designed the thing to get across right, good communication should always be good, like it's inherent in good communication. In other words, if you're, and there's so much AI, right, we're not talking about image creation here. Right, we're talking about, like chat, gpt and Claude and Bard and some of these other things, when it's working well. My experience is it's seamless and you don't even notice it. Right, that is hopefully what good AI should be, if you don't know, right, it's like you don't want to hear the cooks yelling at each other in the kitchen when you're at a nice restaurant. Right, it should be in the background.
Josh Matthews:But the fatigue comes from the messaging, and I can tell you that I've definitely have like email fatigue, phone call fatigue, not from having meaningful conversations or meaningful emails, but the barrage of new AI-related oriented, created campaigns. It's like I can see it a mile away. I can just look at the format of the email and know there's nothing in there I care about or want to read. What do you think, ty?
Tyler Zika:I'm bringing this up because it's kind of you mentioned communication, bad AI, not idealistic emails. Did you see the Jeff Bezos Lex Friedman interview where he talks about how he likes to run meetings?
Josh Matthews:No, I didn't Tell us.
Tyler Zika:I'm going to butcher it, but what I got from it is there was a segment where he talks about how he likes to run meetings and how he likes to communicate and he basically I think he said he pays somebody weeks in advance to prepare the memo and he says he wants it to be like scripture it's like the angels can sing off this memo, and so he invests in a medium that everyone in the meeting partakes of and then they sit and they read it for 30 minutes. He treats a meeting like a study hall where everyone will read this memo. It might be six pages long and then, after that's done, they communicate, they have the awkward conversations, the clarifications, and that's what I'm wanting more as a developer, architect is. I'm seeing a lot of roles. It's kind of the same thing.
Tyler Zika:There's a 12 email thread, there's multiple tickets, multiple teams. The meetings sometimes aren't as quality as I would like them to be and I'm wondering if, what can we do to get rid of some of that noise? And maybe this is just unique to me, but I've been in the industry for about eight years now. It seems more, more. It seems like it could be better.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, yeah, all excellent points, and what what you described is Jeff Bezos's process for having a meeting is not unique to him. It's not invented by him by any stretch of the imagination. Right, reducing meeting time is critical for, I would say, everyone. It's just that there are too many idiots in the world that don't know how to pause for two hours and figure it out. No offense, idiots, but come on like it's stupid. So you know, you have these long, long, long meetings, or multiple, multiple, multiple meetings where a slack message would have sufficed.
Josh Matthews:I think people are often too looking for collaboration, and I'll scratch that. Not collaboration, consensus and consensus matters at times, but sometimes you need to be directive. You know we're not having a democratic vote on what we're doing with this project. It's not whoever has the most hands up wins, and for that you need a leader, right. So leaders need to step up.
Josh Matthews:It's really the responsibility of the leaders to prepare people for the meeting, hold them accountable to the time, and if you watch Congress at work, they've figured that out. I'm not saying Congress works well, right, but they figured it out. You get this much time to say your point, so you better, you better be prepared, right? So don't say what you can read quickly. I don't know about you, but I can read a lot faster than I can talk or listen. Right, actually, I can listen pretty fast too, but for the most part most people can read a lot faster than they can talk, and then they can digest it, and especially if they're digesting it at least 24 hours beforehand, well then they've processed it, meaning they've slept on it. We say slept on it for a reason, right, your brain can organize some of that stuff, come up with fresh ideas.
Josh Matthews:So if you want to make a change in this area for yourself, right, you just start doing that for all of the meetings that you're organizing, and then the people that maybe you're reporting to or are involved in can see that behavior and copy it. That's the goal, right. And then maybe you can run a class, maybe you can do a little 30-minute session on highly effective meetings and just do that for the whole company, or for your client, or all of your clients. You could just shoot a little video, a five-minute video this is the key to successful meetings and send that out to everyone that you're working with. So there's a lot of things that require just a few hours up front. That will save you a lot of time down the road. I know Fred had his hand up and he's, I'm sure, got something to say about this and AI, but what are your thoughts, fred?
Fred Cadena:Yeah, no, I think it's a great discussion. I think that, yeah, separated from the AI piece of it, which is the level of intentionality and I'm familiar with Bezos' meeting structure I think that it's not magic because of the rigidity. It's magic because it forces people to put preparation and intentional thought into a meeting. So his whole thing is like no PowerPoints, don't bring more than two pizzas worth of people into a conference room. Maybe if you have too many people in the meeting, you'll never get the consensus and if you haven't done the deep thinking about what you want people to make a decision on, you'll never get to it.
Josh Matthews:So, fred, if we're going to have a meeting, that's a two-pizza meeting, right? Just you and me.
Fred Cadena:That is it. But no, I mean, I think it's great, I think that and I see this a lot in organizations that I've worked in organizations, I work with organizations, I help there's so much meeting on the calendar that nobody really takes any time to prepare for meetings. One of the things that I think infuriates me and maybe that's too strong a word is when I get a meeting invite with a title and no agenda. That tells me that nobody's actually thought about what we're going to talk about in the meeting and we're going to show up and kind of navel, gaze and talk around the edges of a topic and then decide to reassemble for another hour. So I mean, I like, I think sometimes a long narrative.
Fred Cadena:I think Jeff Bezos' standard is six pages. I think that's a good tool to have in the toolbox, but just like anything else, you don't want to pull it out every single time. I think there's a place for PowerPoints, I think there's a place for other tools in a meeting, but the thread that I pulled through the whole thing is be intentional. Prepare for the meeting. Don't have a meeting when a Slack message would do. Don't have a meeting when a quick email will do, and I love that as an intentionality for the year.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, man, I mean, look, all that makes sense. And here's a little trick Book your meetings for 10 minutes after. I mean, people aren't prepared. It's not because they don't want to be prepared, it's because they don't have time or it's not as important. Right, I don't know about you, but most of my meetings run long and it's just like that's the reality of it, sometimes because I like to shoot the breeze and I burn up.
Fred Cadena:I was just saying, after recording with you on this show and on mine that's so jocky, here we go.
Josh Matthews:What For our podcast tonight? So yeah, but if you book your meetings for 10 minutes after guess what? Someone can go hit the John and they can come back. Google the thing that they were supposed to read up, read the agenda, make a couple bullet points. It's not like you've got to prepare a PowerPoint for every single meeting, right? I mean, maybe you do if you're in sales and I don't know, but if you're just like having internal discussions with your colleagues, it shouldn't. Most meetings don't take you that long to prepare for. Anything else is called a project. Ty other thoughts on this. I mean, it's a great, it is a great topic. It's an efficiency question, right? Like how do we be more efficient? You know, winston Churchill was famous for having meetings last no longer than 20 minutes. I forget what the quote was, but it's like you know, if you can't say what you need to say or learn what you need to learn, 20 minutes like you're doing something wrong.
Tyler Zika:More thoughts. I'm bringing it up because what I'm most productive is when a ticket is like a golden ticket and it has everything I need and I don't need to hunt for things and I can just crank out some code in a few hours, whatever needs to be done to change in the org, and I don't know a technical person who refuses a golden ticket. So I mean it's hard to. I'll say this when I've just been like a one man shop on a project that I can work directly with stakeholders, kind of offer the whole entire package from concept to production release. It works well, but I think that's in part just because I'm one person. Then there's less things getting lost.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, you're communicating with yourself as like a sort of old fashioned programmer, analyst right.
Tyler Zika:Well, I'm just being able to meet with, like the state, the state directly, versus go through two or three people and those two or three people made the ticket and then I'm just kind of stuck with, yeah, trying to sometimes it's deciphering hieroglyphs, sometimes because you're just trying to find the right keywords. I'll give one example. I was given this task to automate something and I read the entire PDF is only three pages but there was nothing mentioned of the custom object. That was a part of this whole process and as a developer like I, need that to kind of know where to start. So I took a lot of notes and I had dig through all the custom objects just to find the right one and that's just like one teeny little thing.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, have you ever thought about creating a template? You know, I mean just something, or like a follow up Thanks for your ticket, right? Like just an auto auto responder that says if your ticket is missing this, that, the other thing and XYZ, it will be delayed. If you would like to refresh your ticket, click here and input all accurate information necessary to getting done what you want done. I mean, can you do something like that?
Tyler Zika:I could. I just need all my jobs. It's just been you hand me the work and I have to work with your ticketing system and how I need to show up and accommodate. I can't. I'm always hesitant when I start a new gig that I okay, I'm here, I need, you need to work with me and how I do everything. So there's, I'm with you on making suggestions. I guess it's trying to figure out when should you make this suggestion versus you don't want to disrupt what maybe they've been doing for a while.
Josh Matthews:Yeah. So, look, I've got a little bit of experience with this. Not necessarily a lot of tickets, like working Jira for a little while, but that's about it. You know, Fred's got a comment coming up here too, Okay, but look, there's.
Josh Matthews:There's this whole thing that we say in sales, right, you tell them what you get to tell them, then you tell them, then you tell them what you told them, Right, and so having clear communication or even like a little contract or agreement that you can send out to your clients saying, look, this is how I can best serve you following these protocols. If you see anything here that is not in line with your current systems or protocols, now is the time to let me know so that we can navigate this. The clients that I've worked with in the past that have yielded you know where I've yielded the very best results, all follow these five basic principles of good communication related to tickets or projects or whatever, Like I'm just riffing here. Okay, so you say other people in the past have been successful because of X, Y and Z. Are you committed to X, Y and Z and, if not, what won't you be able to commit to, so that I know that upfront we can figure out a workaround. So you say that when you sign them right, Does that make sense, Ty? I mean like you, just this is just, this is communication stuff. Tell them, tell them again, and then you tell them what you told them, and then you can hold people accountable, right? Okay?
Josh Matthews:Stakeholder number one Do you remember? On whatever December 15th, I shared a document with you and you know you responded and said that you'd read it. Do you remember that? Oh yeah, I remember that. Number three on that was X, Y. You know? Blah, blah, blah. And I've noticed two times now that that's not really happening. And I don't want this project to cost you more than it should and I don't want it to be delayed longer than it should. So what can we do about this? You see what I mean. You actually get to hold them accountable to it. So it's literally no different than the whole meeting thing. Tell them what you're gonna tell them, and then you have the meeting and then you said to follow up email. This is what we covered. You can tell them what you told them.
Fred Cadena:I'm gonna channel my inner Vanessa Grant, since she's not on the call today, and just say, like, this is why there's a role of a business analyst.
Fred Cadena:Right, like a lot of times, you know, business users, business stakeholders, don't have the technical understanding of how a system works to give those types of details in a requirements document.
Fred Cadena:And as a developer, as an architect, you don't wanna spend the money to go through and do the research that somebody that is you know more on the business analysis side, can do more efficiently than you can, right.
Fred Cadena:And so you know, to Josh's point, at the end of the day, right, it's a dollars and cents decision. You know, if they keep throwing the work over the fence to you to do what your rate, that's gonna have a cost to them more. And so it becomes a choice of you know. Do you guys wanna do this? Do you guys wanna keep paying me to do this, even though you're gonna be paying me more than you can get somebody else to do it for? Or should we add somebody else to the team to do that business analysis work so that we all get more efficiency out of the program? But you know, just because you don't put somebody in to do the job doesn't mean the job doesn't need to be done, and business analysis is a key part of any development effort, whether it's you know, a whole green field of implementation or it's you know working through tech, you got that right.
Fred Cadena:You still need to understand the problem, right. You still need to understand the underlying issue, and Doug, you know well.
Josh Matthews:So I feel your name and Ty, I mean I guess and to Fred's point, like I guess it would work if you're actually billing hourly. But if you have caps on that, if it's like, okay, well, I got a project, it's 200 hours and you're burning up all these other hours doing, you know, chasing people down, you know, then there's gotta be a clause in the agreement for that. If you're actually bidding project-based work, never mind the hours, you're just saying, okay, this gig's 20 grand or 10 grand or whatever 30 grand, 100 grand, well then you've got problems, because every time there's an issue that's eating into your profit, is eating into your profit and is eating into your time. So having that language early and often in agreements is really critical.
Josh Matthews:Now we did get a question. So thank you, rob, for sharing this question. Happy to finish this conversation about this, and I'm kinda curious before I jump into something maybe I'm just being jumpy with too much coffee, but you tell me, fred, anything else to share on this topic or, ty, anything else that you'd like to talk about related to this topic.
Fred Cadena:Well, I think, almost like every post I see on LinkedIn, the original question was raised with an AI context, but it really wasn't about AI at all At some point, whether it's this question or some other question, before we finish, I would like to talk about, like the what I would say the trough of disillusionment we're in right now with AI, because I think it's interesting. I think not that the market foretells everything, but, from a market perspective, all the darlings that were up last year on an AI bent have been down as the markets opened so far this year. So I think that we are in a little bit of a trough of disillusionment money on AI and I think that would be an interesting thing to talk about, but I don't wanna go there if there's other questions.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, and it's a good topic, ideally as long as it's related to careers, right Cause that's the focus here. So how are we disillusioned with AI and how is that affecting our careers? How is that affecting our ability to get work, to find work, to succeed or excel? I think that that's absolutely worthy, and we've got a fun question from Rob and Rob, I appreciate you sending this in. And that question is let's get to it what Salesforce conferences are you looking forward to in 2024? Just kinda go around Robin on this. All right, ty, what is it?
Tyler Zika:Oh, do you wanna focus on the conferences or oh, I thought your hand.
Josh Matthews:Sorry, I had to switch screens. I thought you were raising your hand to answer that question. So yeah, for right now we're gonna cover conferences. Is there a conference that you're looking forward to?
Tyler Zika:You know, I'm ashamed to admit, I've never even been a dream force. I've never been to any Salesforce conferences. So I'm open to going once a year if anyone has a recommendation.
Josh Matthews:You know there's a conference of shame that we could send you to. It's for everybody who's been working in the ecosystem for eight years and has never attended one. Would you like a free ticket? The conference of shame, I like it. Sorry, making myself laugh. What about you, fred?
Fred Cadena:You know I'm working on my conference schedule at the moment. I have registered for TDX. I've actually never been to TDX before. It is usually well, I know it. Usually it still is. The topics around TDX are more technical than what I deal with in most day to days, but I'm excited to go, excited to see what it's all about, so I'll be there for that. I've got some new content that I'm putting out for several of the dreamin' conferences. I hope to be selected to go back to Midwest and Florida Dreamin', as well as a couple of other Dreamin' conferences Myohai, cactus are both kind of on my list and would be open to going to other ones. And then, of course, I can't wait to get back to Dreamforce. Really, josh, I appreciate all the work you did last Dreamforce and getting the media tent and networking events with other content creators together with Sir Conte. I hope that we can do something similar again this year. And then I had a separate party for my own podcasts, which I look forward to hosting again.
Josh Matthews:That was so fun. By the way, that was so fun. I love rooftop. Beautiful day on the rooftop, it was wonderful.
Fred Cadena:Yeah, right in the shadow of Seattle's first hour could not have fallen into a better location. But yeah, I'm excited. I love hitting out on these conferences, just because they're a great way to reconnect with the network, build new connections, and just excited to jump into a new conference season, love it.
Josh Matthews:What about you, mr Peter?
Peter Ganza:Not sure yet. So I've got one client that I'm gonna get into that and the one who actually sent me down for Angelus streaming or License Streaming.
Peter Ganza:Yeah, wisewolf, we're gonna get into that. Have some budget for it. I don't know what I'm gonna recommend or which ones I may or may not go to. That's the most likely. And then I've got another client that's hopefully going to get there like to the budgeting planning phase, but at least not for another month. Hey go, dreamforce. Hell no. And you have to listen to my podcast on why. There's a lot of reasons and I'm not at the end of the line.
Josh Matthews:But, peter, that's your best opportunity all year to catch COVID. Like, why wouldn't you go?
Peter Ganza:Well, I feel like every neighbor I talk to and everybody around me is sick and everyone got COVID for like the third time or the seventh time and I haven't had it. We haven't had it. So I don't know, am I missing out on something? I hear good things about this new GN1, GN period, one variant, I mean anybody on the podcast had that.
Josh Matthews:I don't know anything about that. Yeah Well, you like sciences people.
Fred Cadena:But what you're saying is you, you don't wanna drop five grand to hang out with 50,000 year closest friends and then be in bed sick for the next two weeks.
Tyler Zika:Peter, you might have golden blood. You might have the cure to COVID.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, you might, you might.
Peter Ganza:You know what the golden blood is? It's. I sit on my ass at home all day. I don't go anywhere, I'm not traveling.
Josh Matthews:Maybe we'll just send you to the conference of shame too. How about that?
Peter Ganza:Well, I mean, come on, I saw you down Florida right. I gave you a big hug right. So I'll go if, like, let's say, wisewolves you know, wants to send me right, if someone pays for it, hell yeah. But right now, okay, I had a phenomenal start to the year, the month quarter, everything, all that kind of stuff. I'm not thinking that far ahead, but it's not something that I personally would budget for, because I don't get to know why they're right. Dreaming events. That's where it's at right.
Josh Matthews:Well, first on I like all of them but yeah, yeah. I love them all First on yeah, yeah, Ty, you got your hand up.
Tyler Zika:So I want to rephrase what I said earlier. I said they didn't want to talk about AI, but I think a better way, at least for me, is like we need to start thinking of AI.
Josh Matthews:Ty, I'm going to cut you off, dude, I'm sorry because I got to run this show, but we're still on that. One question, no one. I still got to answer it, so we'll come right back to you, okay, promise.
Tyler Zika:Okay, I had my hand raised because I'm trying to pivot, but Okay, okay, gotcha, gotcha, yeah.
Josh Matthews:So I'll call out for next stuff or going back to that. I don't mean to be a hard ass on here, but it gets real confusing for the listeners if we're, you know, jockeying between a couple couple questions all at the same time. So look, I'll go. I'm just going to say I'm really looking forward to Dreamforce. Man, I had such a blast last year. It was enjoyable right up until the very last evening where I started to feel like crap. And then I did have COVID and had to hide out in a hotel up in Portland where I was visiting family and friends and, you know, put a real damper on the whole holiday.
Josh Matthews:But the conference was fantastic and, you know, getting to see your friends do sessions that's always fun. But where I, what I enjoyed most about it, literally, I think like, aside from like the parties and seeing my friends, spending time with Fred, meeting, meeting new people and getting to spend time with new people who eventually became clients was so fun, right. So I you know we had the podcast in the park right where I was going around and just asking people questions. Man, I love that and it's such a nice different spin on the show to just find out what people loved about the conference and what they're taking away from it and what the biggest surprises were. And then to your point, fred, the Circanti live podcast was fun. A lot of the parties are fun. Getting to see the Foo Fighters again, you know, it's always. They're always a good show, but at the end of the day it's like getting real with some really dope people and just kicking it with them and hanging out whether you're having a drink or not, right, like that's the most fun Making new friends, meeting, meeting old and running into old friends. But you do get to do that at a lot of conferences.
Josh Matthews:So I'll be going to Dreamforce. My hope, like Fred, is to speak again at Florida Dreaming and something I'm putting on the map for myself for the years to attend a world event. You know, maybe go ahead up New York or Atlanta. I don't know if I'm going to do a lot of the smaller dream and events unless I'm invited to To give some sort of a presentation. So anyway, there you go. I'm kind of curious. I see some familiar faces on here. Feel free to raise your hand if you're listening to the show and you'd like to share your favorite conferences or what you're planning on going to as well, and with that we're going to go back to Ty. Okay, ty Zika, go ahead. Pivot point.
Tyler Zika:So the question was so if I'm going to go to a conference, you're going to sell me at a conference. Maybe this is reaching out to Salesforce. I don't want to hear AI, I want to hear just the tool, because I think the over the fatigue I'm getting with it is just tell me, help me find the right tool. And it's too easy to pick up tools, especially as, like a developer, every developer wants just like a couple, a couple tools to work with, and. But the tools are diverse in the ecosystem. I had a job where I didn't have to do any lightning web components for years. A little bit of visual force, a little bit of aura. But if I'm, if I'm, as a Salesforce developer architect to get into, okay, I got LWC or a visual force, apex, maybe some AWS and some type of AI tool. That that, just that's enough. Developers want to master their tools. So I guess that's yeah what I'm seeking. If I'm, if I'm going to look at you got to go to TDX man.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, I mean I think for you TDX, you know that's what that's for Like. When I look at Salesforce excuse me, dreamforce I mean it's it's trying to be everything to everybody in some way shape or form. Right, but it's not going to be. It's great for guys like me who want to go and see their clients and see their candidates and make new clients and find new candidates and see their friends and hang out. You know, most of us work from home and so getting that come, that in person camaraderie man there's there ain't nothing better than dreamforce. For that Like, it's awesome, it's so much fun, so much good energy and you can get a really good high level view on certain things. But if you're trying to get into best practices, best tools, how to use something, it's TDX all the way Right.
Josh Matthews:That's the technical version of dreamforce and I don't know if it's so much like oh, salesforce wants you, you know. I mean you said if Salesforce wants me to come, then XYZ right, but the reality is, is it's like? No, it just is there and people are going to come anyway. So for you, it's like picking the right conference and figuring out specifically what you want to get out of it, because I can tell you they're so big they don't care about you and they don't care about me or anybody else on this show, but they do care about all of us as a collective, if that makes sense, and so there's going to be some of that mass market appeal. And then dreamforce Fred correct me if I'm wrong I mean, a lot of money is spent on dreamforce to get large clients excited about the platform. What do you think, fred?
Fred Cadena:Yeah, no, I think you're spot on. I mean, I think dreamforce. I mean I love it.
Fred Cadena:I've been to a bunch I think 13 dreamforces but it is very much a business development conference. It is positioned in the calendar where it is to get deals lined up for Salesforce's year end. It is primarily to get you know decision makers and stakeholders in the room and excited about adopting either the platform in general or something new and exciting and sexy on the platform. Yes, there's some learning opportunities, but it's not nearly as deep, especially if you're a developer for TDX, like TDX and again, I haven't been to one. My girlfriend's been to a couple and she's an architect and you know it is in the weeds, talking about the tool really getting hands on. And I'd also recommend the dreamer conferences. You know they all have a little bit of different flavor but again, it's practitioners talking to practitioners. It's not a sales conference and I think you'll get a lot more value out of those than you would out of dreamforce or out of the world tour events, which are really just little mini one day dreams.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, and I really like unless you're trying to sell, you know you're doing client acquisition, there's no need to go to. You know 10 dream events, right? I mean, they're purposefully designed so that people don't have to spend a lot of money on travel or travel too far or outside their time zone or take a full week and so on. They're generally low cost and local. So if you're in the Chicago area, just go to the Midwest one, or if it's in Chicago, or you go. If you're in the you know Nevada, Northern California you know you go to Tahoe Dreaming, right? If you're in Florida or Georgia, you go to Florida Dreaming. You can drive there. So you know, just pick one and show up, and then show up again next year too, because that's when those relationships really will cement and you'll get a real sense of it.
Josh Matthews:And you can't go to all the sessions, you know, at any of these things. You only have so many hours and so many days. So pick wisely and if you can speak it's all the better. Once you're a speaker, you'll realize a lot more benefits to attending these things than just being. You know, a what do you call it? Someone who shows up at a conference. What do you call that Conference goer?
Tyler Zika:Attendee Attendee.
Josh Matthews:Thank you, peter, anybody can speak.
Fred Cadena:I've been to a lot of the Dreaming conferences and a lot of the sessions I enjoyed the most were first-time Sure yeah.
Fred Cadena:So if you have something you know that you built that was cool, or if you have a tool that you want to share, or if you, you know, if you have a technique, put something together. You know the people that sit on those panels that evaluate. They'll give you feedback, you know, and put it out there. So if you have any desire to share Dreaming, I 100% recommend people to submit to the Dreaming conferences and they're all year long.
Josh Matthews:So there's probably a couple calls for speakers that are open, right now and there's, we actually have an episode that you can check out on the Salesforce career show, regardless of what platform you're on, and it's just with Janet. So you just search, you know, scroll through and you see the name Janet. Grab that one, because that talks about how to actually get your very first speaking engagement at a Dreaming event or another kind of conference event. So well worth, well worth a listen. Oh, by the way, you know I got these. I got this updated stat thing from Buzzsprout. That's where we, we, that's what hosts our podcast. Right, and I think in our last show, fred, I'd said something like we were listened to in over 40 countries last year. So the actual number is 80, 80 countries. That's like half of them, I think. How many countries are there, peter? This seems like something you would know Whether they're like 160, just looked it up, 195. I was, I was close, I thought 160.
Peter Ganza:That I mean because you looked it up. It must be accurate, but it you know it changes all the time. But yes, approximately.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, it's from. That's coming from worldometercom, orinfo, worldometerinfo.
Peter Ganza:Well, I mean everything on the line is legitimate and real, definitely real, definitely real. Yeah, let's get back on track here. Josh, I don't want to be a hard ass. Let's keep this show on track.
Josh Matthews:This is going to turn into the Bill Burr show. Oh, look at this, look at this, I'm looking at this. What the F?
Peter Ganza:Hey, hey, hey, okay, Come on, let's get back on track here.
Josh Matthews:We can do that. We can do that. Look, we're trying to do a little bit of an AMA format here today. We've had two questions. Thank you, ty and thank you Rob for those. If you've got another question, you can go ahead and DM me or, better yet, raise your hand and ask away. Otherwise, we're going to keep this show kind of short. In the meantime, we've got a little message from our sponsor, salesforce staffing.
Josh Matthews:That's my company, so the Salesforcerecruitercom. We currently have two brand new openings as of this week. What is it? It's Wednesday, so we've got two new orders this week. They're very interesting and I think they're kind of complex too. So listen carefully. You're going to want to visit thesalesforcerecruitercom. We have a new senior lead Salesforce developer position open. It's going to pay quite well. I'm not sure if there are bonuses or not. I can find that out.
Josh Matthews:This is a really neat company. You can live anywhere in the United States, except for like half of them I think they've got. If you're living in a place where most people are doing Salesforce work, I'm sure that is a state that you could work in, but it's a national company. What they need is someone who's really strong with AppExchange products. So you're building something. It's not necessarily for the AppExchange because they hosted all themselves. It's an interesting financial company, investment company, and they need a serious, serious, serious badass who has been there and done that. So if you've worked for a PDO or if you've worked for an ISV, this might be an opportunity of a lifetime. Go ahead and check it out.
Josh Matthews:The other opportunity that we just signed today with a brand new client they're looking for an individual, ideally based in Dallas, the San Francisco Bay area or in Miami, and this is a hybrid role. So a couple of days in the office. There is some travel, about 20 to 25%, 25, 30%, something like that. They need someone who is a badass another badass in Salesforce, field service. So if you were a field senior, field service admin or have done field service consulting, you'd be working with some amazing people there are about 700 people in this company and if you're actually based in Miami, just about an hour and a half south of me, then you'd get to be in the office with the CEO, who's a heck of a good guy, and got that top level access of a sizable company.
Josh Matthews:I got to spend a lot of time just yesterday with the hiring manager and he's director of IT. Lovely guy, absolutely lovely guy, and we're interested in talking to you. So if you're interested, go ahead and apply. If you can't do that, then you can hit me up, dm me preferably email me or text me, and we'll see what we can do about getting you in front of the client. Okay, that's it for the plug. Peter Ganza, go for it.
Peter Ganza:Okay, I know everybody, including me, that has seen that picture floating around LinkedIn and Twitter is just dying to know Is that the first time you've done the Tom Selleck 80s stash Stash? Because it's just fucking awesome.
Josh Matthews:You kill it. Thanks, buddy. No, this is my first real, real mustache. I guess I've had beards.
Peter Ganza:Sorry, you got to post a picture in the comments or something. Yeah, let's see.
Josh Matthews:How do I even do that? I can go to comments and then add another post photo and there we go and add post. So yeah, that's me with a stash. I started growing it the start of November. I grew a beard and then my chin and jowls are all really dark and really gray, with these big gray stripes. I look like a rabbi. So I was like I'm shaving that and what was left is the Selleck stash. Yeah, man, now it looks like we got some other questions here, so let me grab those. Oh yeah, what career will AI end first, developers or MBAs? Oh, I like that. Gentlemen, ladies, what do you guys think?
Fred Cadena:So I'll go ahead, because I always have an opinion. I think the question is bad. Mba is not a career. Mba is a designation of which a number of careers can fall under.
Fred Cadena:I'd say the same thing for developer, but I think that there are roles that developers play and roles that MBAs play that are more susceptible to being eliminated by AI.
Fred Cadena:If I'm an MBA holder and I'm in the lower ranks and invest in bank or private equity firm, I'm primarily doing spreadsheet analysis. My days are probably numbered, or at least the firms are always going to need to recruit talent from the bottom to move up, and that job is going to change if you're an entry level analyst of those firms to be less of a spreadsheet junkie. Same thing for developers. I think if you're a developer that is primarily doing QA work, if you're developing this, primarily doing tweaks to existing well-documented, object-oriented language programs, a lot of that volume is probably going to go away. If you're more of an architect, if you're working with a language that's a little bit more archaic, if you have some specialization in certain types of technology, certain integration patterns, certain middle and back end systems in different industries, that specialized knowledge is probably a little bit safer. I think that the more rote your role is, the more repetitive it is, the more at risk you are, whether you're wearing a business suit or wearing a developer hoodie.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, and look, I mean this happened when factories. Robots came into factories, right, when there was all of a sudden you could have a camera and a torque meter to tell whether or not the screw was put into the right spot, which screw it was, and how much torque to apply for whatever to keep the car door on. But now people have to build those machines and design them and create the software for them, and I think AI is going to be one of those things where, by the way, I'm in full agreement that the more rote your job is, the more likely it is to go away. But there will always be additional jobs to support the industry. That is actually the industry that is supplanting certain jobs. So it's pretty easy to figure out that the most rote jobs require the least amount of intelligence. And yeah, that's going to be likely some sort of a problem.
Josh Matthews:But meanwhile we've got these other problems in the United States where we can't get enough manual labor there aren't enough pilots, there aren't enough psychotherapists, there aren't enough rufers, there aren't enough plumbers, there aren't enough doctors, there aren't enough nurses. Some of these require significant education and some of these don't require almost anything. You just got to show up with some boots on, and so there's always going to be a career out there for anybody, anyone. You just have to figure out are you bright enough or determined enough to acquire the skill sets for the less rote positions? And if the answer is no, well you're set man, because there's jobs galore, from blue collar, brown collar labor all the way up. There's just a high demand for hiring right now.
Josh Matthews:So, yeah, I thought it was a good question and I kind of got it right. It's sort of like engineers versus people who are more focused on business. But I think that this question came from a report regarding the new generation whatever that is and its belief is that there will be fewer MBAs and more engineers. Of course, it's not like colleges are getting the best wrap these days, are they? You know? I mean pipe up guys. Feel free to jump in, you don't have to raise your hand for this.
Fred Cadena:That's true, and here's the thing right, like MBA has never been is going to be a controversial statement, probably it's never been about what you learn in the classroom. It's about the network you build from the people that you're going through the learning experience with and the people that went to that school before you. I mean that's why people get MBAs. They don't get MBAs to learn the content. And the content. I disagree.
Josh Matthews:I disagree Totally, but I'll come back to that.
Tyler Zika:I need to. So I was the one who posted that question and it came from this guy named George Hots. Josh, can I post his tweet? Yeah, go for it. This guy, george Hots, he was like one of the first guys to hack the iPhone and I. He's in San Diego. He's actually the reason I was able to talk to Elon Musk on a Twitter on an X base. So I this I feel like this guy is, in the end, x hired him to fix their code and stuff. But anyways, this Jumbo tweet here. He's trying to start a consultancy where it's more engineers, less MBAs. They're kind of poking fun at some current consultancies. Has anyone seen that content of people kind of making fun of certain consultancies?
Josh Matthews:I don't know I haven't seen that, but I don't peruse that stuff very much.
Fred Cadena:I say as a former consultant that's been at several of the, the, the large consulting firms. I may or may not have circulated quite a bit of that content.
Josh Matthews:Of course.
Tyler Zika:Anyways, though, he brings up MBAs versus engineers. That's what made me prompt the question. Yeah.
Peter Ganza:But an MBA MBA is not. I mean, mba is great, but there's so much more to being successful and I'll just give one example, if you don't mind, josh. I my first job I mean I was building computers for my pops whatever. My first actual job was at Semantic tech support, winfax, talkworks let's not go there, that's a separate podcast but I think maybe a year or two in I was training new hires, right. And there was this older gentleman I'll call him because he was clearly a decade, maybe two, older than me who had like a triple PhDs and a freaking MBA. And you know, here he is sitting in, you know, tech support training and yeah, he was super smart, but he wasn't successful even at tech support because he just didn't have the debt drive, that personality, even though he had all these. You get to get through the MBA and I know that's quite difficult. It's not just about the MBA, there's other things that are important as well. Are you? You simply won't be successful.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, it's. I mean those are all good points, peter. Look, if it was just for the network, people would just go to their Toastmasters, you know what I mean, or whatever, like I get it there's, there's a cost to it and there's a time cost to it. And therefore, if that creates automatically, you know, exclusivity and scarcity, right. So I I agree with you, fred, 100% that, yeah, like it's massive benefit for for the network.
Josh Matthews:But where it really shines is your general marketability, right, and MBAs don't sit on the sidelines for too long. Compared to people with, you know, bas and BS degrees. They just like, they get snatched up pretty quickly. Oftentimes it's a requirement to even get advancement in an organization into senior leadership. That you have that and why? Well, it's not just because of your network, right, we've got LinkedIn now you know it's pretty easy to find people and connect with people. I don't think it's that hard, you know. But an MBA teaches business fundamentals. You know leadership, communication, critical thinking, analytical skills and you get real practice on that. Now there's some MBA programs are better than others, right, if you're going to an online school only, like, was that Southern Illinois or Phoenix or something like that? I mean, even there I think you're still doing some group, group projects together and group activities, but for the most part it's not like going, you know, into class. And so you know, remote education has replaced night school. You guys remember that. Remember in the 90s I think that's when they died but people would go to night school for their MBAs. And now what do they do? They log on from their desk at their house where they're probably working already. So, yeah, it's great for marketability.
Josh Matthews:I'll tell you that as a business owner, I have run into situations time and time again where I really wished I'd had the experience and the education of an MBA. Yes, I can Google stuff right, but it ain't the same. And I know it's not the same because once you have that MBA to Fred's point then you're going generally, going to not generally, but often you're going to these consulting firms and you're getting real world hands-on experience multiple times with multiple clients and serious problems or serious issues, big implementations and what have you. So the MBA gets you the additional experience.
Josh Matthews:Now, I don't have any of that, none of it. I still got to be a VP at a Fortune 500, but it's not like I was the shot caller for hundreds of people, because I wasn't. So that's why I employ people with MBAs and people who have contributed to those types of programs, because they can help me in massive, significant ways to deliver better results for our clients, and that's what we all want. So, fred, I'm going to kick it back to you after I've said, and since I've said, my piece now.
Fred Cadena:No, I hear you and I think, like you know, I came out of the gate with a pretty bomb assing statement. But I agree that you know there's other ways to build a network. But the network you get out of going to a university program, and I mean a traditional MBA program, is very different and it is in a way, to your point, you know, kind of a union card for white collar you know work and for executive white collar work. And you're right, it's a good filter, right, if I've got two candidates and they're otherwise really great and they need to filter, you know there's one has an MBA and one doesn't, it can be a deciding factor. But I think that you know an MBA degree, as far as like what you actually get in the classroom, the actual academic learning of it is far less valuable than hard sciences, which I would include development. You know, when you're getting a degree, a technical degree, you're learning something that is much more difficult, requires more practice than what you learn in an MBA program.
Josh Matthews:Well, sure, but don't you think, fred, that people are like there are people who are born and they're going to get an MBA and never go seek an engineering degree right, and vice versa? It's sort of like, well, how many people are scientifically minded or developer code minded, how many people can actually handle symbolic language right or handle 12 hours shifts sitting at a desk? You know coding right? Like it's a totally different kind of person. I don't think it's a choice. I think the choice is made for you upon birth, for the most part, plus exposure, right.
Fred Cadena:I'm not. I'm certainly not suggesting it's a choice. I think what I'm suggesting is that the structure of a formal program benefits people that are more technical more than people that are doing something like this.
Josh Matthews:Hmm, I see. Yeah, that makes sense, ty, you've got your hand up, and then we've got another question to ask. Go for it.
Tyler Zika:I nerded out on prompt engineering for a few months. Have you heard about it?
Josh Matthews:Yeah, anyone else yes?
Tyler Zika:Absolutely Okay. I some people have said it's just like a fluke and it's. Some people are really serious and I'm happy to hear you mentioned symbolic language and we've Peter mentioned. There was a gentleman who had a bunch of degrees but couldn't communicate well. And then Josh, he mentioned the MBA experience is valuable. So I'm just trying to bridge, like okay, what can I take from you Josh, what can I take from you Peter? And the bridge I'm coming to is there's some sense of communication you get from a college experience and there's all their communication style that you don't get, the street communication. And I guess I'm just trying to maybe see if that's we're just getting really becoming a prompt engineer. Maybe that's what needs to happen to bridge these two parties.
Peter Ganza:Real quick. My story tie was from 1998. So keep that in mind.
Josh Matthews:Okay, we've got a big fist bump from tie there. Yeah, it's, look. I mean I'll just go back to what I was sharing with Fred. I think we're kind of born into what you know. We're born with proclivities, talents and interests, and this isn't I'm not making this shit up Like this is a fact, right. Some people are relationship socially minded, some people are into things. The majority of men are into things and the majority of women are into people and relationships. Okay, that's a fact and it's indisputable, like you cannot. You know, there's going to be outliers and it's not everyone, right, but majority, that just means 51% or more. Okay, and when? And we talked about this, I think, about five or six months ago, just for a little bit. So, just starting with the things versus people. And, by the way, can you guess what I am? I'm a man, but I'm more interested in people and that's why I work in an industry that is dominated by females, right?
Peter Ganza:Sorry, I'm sorry, Josh, just to find out what degree you got Art I was an art major.
Josh Matthews:I studied painting and drawing and, yeah, fine art. I play a lot of music. I don't really paint or draw anymore, but it runs in the family and my kids both do that stuff. So, yeah, all our kids do that. So actually all of our kids, between Casey and me, they're all creative in one way shape or form.
Josh Matthews:So, yeah, man, I mean it's just I just think like you come out how you come out, and then you just get exposure and then you also have a quality of tenacity or stick to it, if Ness right, and then that will partially determine, beyond your intellect, how far you're going to go. Right, because the person who's got tenacity plus intellect can accomplish an MBA. And someone can have the intellect and not the tenacity and they'll never get, they'll never finish their degree. You know, barring other, you know life situations that happen that come out of the blue health issues, accidents and things of that nature, right, but for the most part, if nothing else is standing in your way, then the only thing standing in your way is you. Would you guys agree? Yeah?
Peter Ganza:I was just going to suggest a tie. Listen to my podcast. I'm not trying to say anything about myself, but it talks about. I talk about a lot of these things I didn't. I bounced around right and just ended up wherever the world took me and all the things that Josh has been talking about. Okay, put aside the MBA stuff. I didn't. I never got a degree, but I think for where you are right now, there might be some useful tidbits in there.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, and Peter, when you say your podcast, you mean your episode, is that right?
Peter Ganza:Yeah, yeah, sorry.
Josh Matthews:That's okay. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on some awesome podcasts that you were running. So, no, no, no, yeah, so you can go back. I think it's two episodes, two or three episodes, and you'll have Peter Ganses episode there that he's referring to. All right, we've got one more question and then we'll wrap up the show. It sounds great, okay. Well, the question comes from our friend who's listening right now.
Josh Matthews:Hey guys, how lucrative do you think Salesforce Marketing Cloud is in terms of opportunities? Good question, I like it. Who wants to take this first? Anyone, not all. Jump right in. No, okay, well, I guess it's me.
Josh Matthews:So, look, I'll just say this Everything is going to be lucrative if you go far enough down the field, if you make yourself exceptional, right. For the folks that we've placed in Marketing Cloud positions, there's such a massive jump in compensation from, say, like, email specialist to architect. It's double. You get twice as much Right. So the same thing goes with Salesforce administrators compared to Salesforce architects. All things being equal, roughly, yeah, you're going to make about double, maybe even a little bit more. So Marketing Cloud is a perfectly viable field to go into and deep dive, but only if you love it right. Only if you really enjoy the work, only if you feel good about what you're doing. If you feel like, yeah, I want to be able to deliver messages for clients that are better and help them learn, and have good, intelligent data around it and this kind of stuff to help them sell more stuff, then that's great. There's nothing wrong with that. Go for it if you like. That. It's definitely different than being, say, a Salesforce admin. Is it lucrative?
Josh Matthews:Look, I don't think being a general Marketing Cloud person pays a ton. It probably pays the average, at least here in the United States. So somewhere in the 70s, which is pretty much like average household income right now in 2024, 23, 24. So you're going to make a good average wage. You won't be pumping gas, you won't be pulling espressos and you can have a nice career, but if you push it, you can start to make $200, $300,000 a year by being a badass architect in Marketing Cloud for sure. So if you're going to go, my recommendation for everyone is just go as far as you can and consume as much as you can, because there is a timeline here from birth to death and you want to accelerate things as fast as possible in your early days so that you can have a longer career. That's a well-paying career. So those are my thoughts, fred. What do you think?
Fred Cadena:Yeah, no, I agree with everything you said. I'll say that the part I'll agree with the most is you've got to pick something that you're going to enjoy doing and you've got to pick a specialization if you really want to make some money. And the reason why Marketing Cloud might be a good place to specialize is a couple things. One is there's a lot of complexity in the product set. Marketing Cloud is not just one thing. There's a lot of different licenses in there and each of those products has come together from acquisition and so they all work a little bit differently. So it's very difficult to find somebody that knows all the Marketing Cloud. So if you want to be an interaction studio specialist, you want to be a data cloud specialist, or there's a lot of room to specialize and get really deep in a couple of product sets.
Fred Cadena:I also think that marketing tends to always find budget that you don't necessarily find in other parts of companies, and so I think that from a demand perspective, whether you're on the consulting side or whether you're in-house, there tends to always be a different budget you're hitting from marketing than you are from, necessarily, other IT stands. I also think that there is opportunity in Marketing Cloud to both be on the build side and the run side. So if you enjoy marketing execution, you can have a career in marketing that is not just implementation. That I think is different than what you see on the Salesforce side. But I'm a big Marketing Cloud fan, a big advocate of marketing technology in general. And again, if it's not your thing, don't force it just to make money. But if it's something you're attracted to, I think there's a lot of opportunity there.
Josh Matthews:Yeah, good points, my friend, Definitely good points. Look, I think another advantage and you brought it up, Fred, a little bit is there's a lot more Salesforce admins out there than there are Marketing Cloud pros, so there's going to be fewer opportunities for you, but there are also fewer candidates for that role, if that makes sense, and that means that you're competing with fewer people for those roles, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. So something to think about. Good question, and if we don't have any other questions, I think we're going to put a pin in this thing, which has been going for an hour and 15 minutes. That's pretty good for an off the cuff little ask us anything kind of show. So thank you everybody. Thank you to Tia Zika, thank you to Fred, thank you to Peter Gansa for your insights, thanks to our friends like Casey and Rob, and Cheesecake Larry who've joined us today, and Ogun Molo, thank you for joining the show and for such an excellent question as well.
Josh Matthews:We're going to be back next week, isn't that weird? We're actually going to do two, possibly three shows in a row. We usually just do one every other week, but the schedule got kind of screwy. So we will be back next week and we're fortunate to have a data visualization, enablement and fluency leader, a 2x Tableau visionary and 4x Tableau ambassador, adam Michael, is going to be joining us a special, very special guest for us. We've never had a guest who specializes in Tableau, so this is going to be an all things Tableau episode. He's also a Golden Hoodie recipient from 2022 and a Tableau Next founder and an author as well, so join us with me, vanessa, adam Michael and then the rest of the crew, including Fred, peter and other friends of ours that join us regularly. We thank you and we welcome you to this new year.
Josh Matthews:I think that it's going to be absolutely incredible. For predictions sake, I don't think I gave my predictions on the last show, but I think it's going to be a stellar year for hiring. I think it's going to be a great year for everyone's careers. I think it's going to be weird. It's going to be interesting. It's going to have some nuance.
Josh Matthews:That's not going to be a big surprise, right, but there's no time like now to get a grip on where you want to go. If you haven't done it yet, write it down. Where do you want to be? What do you want to do? What do you want to make? Who do you want to work for? Who do you want to support? What kind of relationships do you want to have this year? What kind of relationships with your boss? What kind of meetings do you want to have right Ty?
Josh Matthews:What kind of efficiency things can you add in this month that will last you not just this month, but this year and a lifetime? How can you improve Whatever it is? I was talking to my son earlier today and he needs to help improving his sleep. We spent 45 minutes. I think we've figured it out. We'll know in a few days, right? So, figuring out all of these things that are going to give you more energy, give you more intellectual power, give you more focus, give you more drive, all of those things you can have them. You just got to carve out what's most important, make a plan around it, and you can do it right now. And you touch any of those things, improve any of those areas. I promise you your career will also improve. So that's all I've got to say for now. We miss Vanessa today. She'll be back next week. Everybody, happy new year. We'll talk to you soon. Have a great day.