Expert Insights from Dreamforce Attendees: Leveraging Salesforce, AI and Career Advice

In this unique episode, Josh catches up with Dreamforce attendees at Yerba Buena Park for their take on Dreamforce, biggest aha's, the best career advice they've ever received and goals for leveraging Salesforce within their own org. 

Ever wondered how to leverage Salesforce capabilities and build strong relationships in the workplace? Join us as we bring you the voices from Dreamforce that hold the answers. We get up close and personal with Golden Hoodie awardee Michelle Hansen, who shares her top career advice. Charles Hopkins of Direct TV dissects the product manager role at Salesforce. Chris Clement, Vice President at Erie Home, talks about fostering effective partnerships. Job Ochenghe from Alliance Laundry Systems, Dawn Glover from PACE Industries, and Xavier Emery from Apicero also step into the conversation, revealing career insights and more.

Prepare to be intrigued by Daryl, a Salesforce Account Executive, as he uncovers the complex challenges of finding partners who truly comprehend the healthcare industry's intricacies. As we delve deeper, Xavier Emery spotlights the significance of relationship-building and its impact on your career. Job introduces us to some thought-provoking interview questions and we explore the uphill task of recruiting top Salesforce talent. Packed with an abundance of knowledge, the conversation ultimately leads to an inspiring message. So, tune in and let the spark of learning ignite!

Transcript

Announcer: 0:02

And now the number one audio program that helps you to hire, get hired and soar higher in the Salesforce ecosystem. It's the Salesforce career show with Josh Matthews and Vanessa Grant.

Josh Matthews: 0:21

Welcome everybody to the Salesforce career show. This is your host, josh Matthews, and it's just me today. This is a special episode and it was recorded live at Dreamforce. Now we had a live episode aired just about two or three weeks ago I think it was two weeks ago with some of the folks over at Cercante. This one's a little bit different.

Josh Matthews: 0:41

I found myself with all of my podcast gear and microphones roaming around Yerba Buena Park during Dreamforce and then also over at the Marconi Center, and I had a chance to talk to six or seven folks and ask them some general questions like what's been the biggest surprise you found here at Dreamforce or what's the best career advice you've ever received, and they also share with us some of their current hiring challenges and even how customers and partners can work better together. Our guests include Golden Hoodie Michelle Hansen, who shares her top career advice, charles Hopkins, who's the product manager for Salesforce for Direct TV. Chris Clement, who's vice president at Erie Home Erie Home is actually the largest re-roofing company in the country and he is head of technology. We also got a chance to say hi again later on that day. Over at the at the Cigar Shindig we have Job Ochenghe, who is senior director of IT at Alliance Laundry Systems, don Glover, who's a business analyst at PACE Industries, and we finish up the conversation with Xavier sorry, xavier Emery from Apicero, who's associate director of marketing.

Josh Matthews: 1:51

Now, the folks that we talk to aren't necessarily in this order. It's not a very long episode. I definitely recommend you listen to the whole thing and stick around for a message about what we've got coming up at the very end of this episode. And here we go. What's your name?

Michelle Hansen: 2:11

Michelle Hansen.

Josh Matthews: 2:12

And Michelle, how are you enjoying Dreamforce so far?

Michelle Hansen: 2:15

This is one of my favorite events of the year. It's been a great week so far.

Josh Matthews: 2:18

And has there been a highlight?

Michelle Hansen: 2:21

I would absolutely have to say that seeing all of my old friends and meetings and new ones has been the highlight. Like, the content is great, everything that you can do here is great, but the people are absolutely the best thing about it.

Josh Matthews: 2:32

You got that right. That's for real.

Michelle Hansen: 2:34

I have had some great first time conversations, ran into a couple people in the elevator that were getting ready for their first cert exam, was able to share some wisdom from the attempts that I've made before and I actually connected both of them and LinkedIn, found out that both of them took those tips, used them, passed their exams on the first try.

Josh Matthews: 2:49

Good job. That's awesome. That always feels good. I've got to ask you if there was one thing, or even two or ten. It's up to you, one little bit of advice that you give to people who are already in their career, not trying to get into the Salesforce, but they're already in their career at any level. What do you think is the number one thing that you would share, to have them keep in mind, to support them through their journey?

Michelle Hansen: 3:11

It's an always keep learning, and by learning I actually mean two things Like. One is the actual technical and the soft skills that go around it, so don't ever think that you know enough and you're done with the learning. But it's also learning about people building those relationships, continuing to build that network. I cannot tell you how many times I've been introduced to a new piece of the technology on the platform or something that's related, like Agile and Scrum, and it's the people in my network that I've been able to turn to for support and insight that have really made the difference in my career. So I lump both those under just always keep learning.

Charles Hopkins: 3:46

Hi, I'm Charles Hopkins. I work for Direct TV. I'm a product manager for our own branded version of customer 360.

Josh Matthews: 3:52

Oh, terrific. And do you have product owners under you or are you managing everything yourself?

Charles Hopkins: 3:56

I manage all of our sales and marketing application. We just moved to the Salesforce ecosystem so we're kind of at the ground level building up.

Josh Matthews: 4:04

Well, congratulations on that. Is this your first dreamforce experience? This is absolutely my first dreamforce. What's been the biggest surprise so far?

Charles Hopkins: 4:13

Just the amount of information and it's just like data overload. I'm mentally just exhausted at this point, but still super excited about everything that I've learned.

Josh Matthews: 4:24

Yeah, it's like you got to go home and now read all the blogs about the sessions. Right To remember.

Charles Hopkins: 4:29

Yeah, it's. You know, I've got just pages of notes and pages of you know to-dos from this and I just hope I can decipher all my notes because there's just a massive amount.

Josh Matthews: 4:39

Maybe AI can help you with that, yeah.

Charles Hopkins: 4:42

I mean, that's the. If there's one theme, that's what it is this year.

Josh Matthews: 4:46

It sure is. You know I write terrible notes, but then I put it into AI and it makes you know. 90% of it makes sense, unlike my Dr Scribble.

Charles Hopkins: 4:54

Yeah, you know, like I said, we're just really starting on the whole ecosystem, and so we're coming in at such an amazing time and trying to figure out how to leverage all of these capabilities for us from first time users. It's, you know, it's super exciting. It's a daunting experience, but it can't wait to get back and put some of this into action.

Josh Matthews: 5:14

I'm excited for you, man, so let me ask you what's the best career advice that anybody ever gave you?

Charles Hopkins: 5:25

Take your knowledge gaining into your own hands, jump on trailhead immediately. Even if you're not part of the family yet, there's so much curated knowledge information out there that you can get into and work toward those first certifications and get to Dreamforce, go to TDX, go to all of these events and really, just you know, immerse yourself and talk to your peers network. There's just so much information out here and people are super willing to help.

Josh Matthews: 5:49

They sure are. I'm kind of curious when you look at bringing people onto your team right, what's the biggest challenge for identifying top talent?

Charles Hopkins: 5:59

I don't know what's the challenge. What you're looking for is someone who can think outside of the box and get away from the traditional kind of IT product waterfall approach. You know we had to. You had to get super agile and you had to embrace, you know, safe and you had to move away from that old, you know nine month long roadmap that you need to get to, and so finding people that are willing to embrace that and take the risk to fail fast I think that's that's the key piece.

Josh Matthews: 6:26

That's agile.

Charles Hopkins: 6:27

Yeah, absolutely yeah, and we know, and again, with our move to Salesforce we're moving to a really agile kind of safe framework, and so you know you have to do that, especially in a business where the direct TV is in. You know it's a it's a declining market and you have to make sure that you're able to keep up with changes and turn on a dime, and that gives us the ability to do that you do and just so you know I'm a customer.

Charles Hopkins: 6:51

Great, yeah, we need. We need as many as we can get when we're out here. We've got a great partnership with Slack that we're kind of. You know we're part of the keynotes here. We're really trying to leverage all of what Salesforce gives us to make that customer experience delightful, to make our agent experience delightful, and it's such a great tool.

Josh Matthews: 7:08

It sure is. Now. This is a question I like to ask sometimes. If you could hire anybody right now, like if you could just push a button and the perfect person showed up to support you with what you're, what you're doing at direct TV right now, what would that role be?

Charles Hopkins: 7:24

Someone who understood the Salesforce environment, someone who understood the automation tools, the ability to take complex processes and turn them into a flow, and someone who could leverage the new Einstein, ai and GPT functions to really just transform that entire experience.

Josh Matthews: 7:43

Thank you so much, Charles.

Charles Hopkins: 7:44

Absolutely have a good one.

Josh Matthews: 7:46

Next we're joined by Chris Clement from Erie Home. What's the biggest surprise that you've had so far? Dream for us.

Chris Clement: 7:53

Biggest surprise is just the amount of AI availability in a production state. Didn't realize it was going to be ready this quickly and because we're in a pretty good shop from our technology stack perspective and our data is clean, we'll be able to start taking advantage of this AI, hopefully within the next couple months.

Josh Matthews: 8:09

I'm so glad for you with for that and tell me your company name again please.

Chris Clement: 8:13

Company is Erie Home and it's out of Toledo, ohio, and we're the largest re-roofing company in the country, with over 70 locations.

Josh Matthews: 8:22

And what's the best career advice you've ever received?

Chris Clement: 8:25

Best career advice I've received is to not necessarily silo any one technology. Because of my role being more of a broad strategist, if you will, or architect, if you will you know, keeping your eyes open across multiple platforms and trying to understand how all those platforms work together is the best advice I've gotten, versus being siloed with just one.

Josh Matthews: 8:54

Makes sense to me. What advice would you seek to accelerate your career even further than it's?

Chris Clement: 8:59

gone so far. I would be, I guess, most interested in hearing you know, helping me understand what's possible, and somebody that has maybe deployed platforms over different industries, who's kind of been there and done that just to see how it could relate back to either my industry that I'm in or other industries. But just having that global holistic approach across industry is what I think would be most helpful for me in my career journey.

Josh Matthews: 9:28

I imagine you're a hiring manager. You have a team.

Chris Clement: 9:31

I do have a team and I roughly 20 individuals on my team within IT.

Josh Matthews: 9:36

And what is the biggest challenge in bringing on top talent for yourself?

Chris Clement: 9:41

We're a company that still is all on site. We've never been hybrid, other than the times that had to be during COVID, and so finding talented Salesforce people in Toledo, ohio is a challenge. So because we do like to work with them on site. But so now we're starting to get our leadership to understand that we, for these skilled positions, have to look abroad and start looking to remote workforce for specific key skilled roles, and we're finding that we have kind of tapped the market that we're in and we now need to start going abroad and I don't mean abroad as in, away from the United States, but just looking to have people in a more remote capacity.

Josh Matthews: 10:26

Yeah, it's a serious challenge, especially for larger companies that are in the trade industry. It's just something that they're not really used to, and convincing leadership to move to a remote for specific roles it's a serious challenge.

Chris Clement: 10:40

Yeah, definitely, and that's my biggest concern is because the work is endless. The business wants to continue to take advantage of all these great capabilities, of these platforms we've implemented, along with all of this awesome data, but the requests are coming in too fast for us to even keep up with. And and how do you prioritize and staff accordingly? And really, where is the focus and what should be, should we be working on to have the highest impact in the business? Still also needs to be understood at the leadership level to help direct these work streams and work the workforce. But this problem is not going to be ending anytime soon. I know I'm going to always have this challenge of having the right staffing levels internally as well as the right external staffing levels by leveraging partners and things like that.

Josh Matthews: 11:30

That's a really you know, it's a common thing that you're experiencing right now. I'm kind of curious if you could hire anybody right now, like boom, they showed up on Monday ready to rock. What title would that be?

Chris Clement: 11:42

You know it's funny you're asking that question because I'm struggling with that title myself Right now. It's a what I would say more of a business analyst, but with more leaning towards the technology understanding. So a business analyst that may have implemented Salesforce, like in a call center, for example, or is closer to the business side not necessarily the technical side of Salesforce and finding people that have good technical skill sets, that can work with functional leaders, functional SMEs and convey those requirements to a team that is technical in nature, that can actually conduct the work, that is a key role for us and not an easy role to fill.

Josh Matthews: 12:25

Yeah, not, maybe not in Toledo, right, you know it's definitely a challenge. It sounds to me almost like a business analyst, but someone who's possibly been a lead consultant or is on track for solution architect, that kind of person.

Chris Clement: 12:38

That kind of role, exactly, yeah, that would. If I could have somebody next week doing that, that'd be great.

Josh Matthews: 12:43

Okay, well, I have people, so give me a call after this, okay? All right, Chris, it's a pleasure to talk to you. Thanks so much for taking a few minutes and I hope that you have a terrific rest of the Dreamforce.

Chris Clement: 12:54

Thank you Very nice to meet you as well.

Daryl Sanford: 12:55

Thanks, Hi Darrell Samford. I'm an account executive with Salesforce Again. How long have you?

Josh Matthews: 13:01

been in AE for. About two years now Were you in software sales.

Daryl Sanford: 13:06

before that, I was yeah, I was in the electronic medical record business before coming over to Salesforce.

Josh Matthews: 13:12

Okay, and so do you focus on health and life sciences.

Daryl Sanford: 13:15

I do yep Healthcare specifically for about 15 years now.

Josh Matthews: 13:19

Good for you. I was just at the Life Sciences Dreaming event down in Fort Lauderdale, so tell me, what do you think is the biggest challenge in identifying partners and partner, sorry, not partner well, yeah, partners, partners needs, like. How do you, how do you choose the right partner to recommend to your clients?

Daryl Sanford: 13:37

Yeah, I think the the important part is to find people that are versed in the industry. So I think every industry is a little bit unique, healthcare especially. There's a lot of niche partners that are out there that focus exclusively, and I just think it helps to take the best of what works for other industries, but you've got to have a specific focus on healthcare. It has unique challenges, it has regulatory aspects. So I look for kind of that mix of kind of what's your experience within the industry to recommend partners.

Josh Matthews: 14:06

And what's the number one bit of advice that you would give to your customers to be able to work well with the partners that they choose?

Daryl Sanford: 14:14

Yeah, I think the the important thing is really to just set the goals and expectations. I think you've got to. You've got to be able to delicate what you want done from the partner, but you've got to give them a little bit of leeway to work the way they like to work and the way that works well for them with other customers, and that's hard. I think it takes a little bit of trust to find the right partner that will work within there. But I think if you just focus on the goals and outcomes of what you want with the engagement, let that be known, get it in writing and then let the partner perform the way they want to perform.

Josh Matthews: 14:46

Well, that makes perfect sense to me, my friend, absolutely, when you think about the future of healthcare and sales force. I mean, certainly we're learning a lot about it. This week, and I'm sure that you know the organization has been prepping you all week on new things that are coming out and this kind of thing. What's the what's the bit that's most exciting for you?

Daryl Sanford: 15:05

Oh well, I think. Of course, though, a big focus for the whole event has been around AI. I think AI is very exciting, but at the same time again, with healthcare there's there's risk, and that's what I think. The trust aspect of AI is crucial, and that's what I'm really excited about. Sales forces focus on trust. I think that's a piece that's so important to healthcare. You trust your doctor, you trust your health insurer. You have to trust the AI if it's going to help, and, believe me, we need the help. Healthcare needs AI, I think, more than any other industry, but it's got to be done in the right way, and I think that's the exciting part of where we're at.

Josh Matthews: 15:42

Yeah, very good, I couldn't agree more. I'm just going to ask you a weird one what's the weirdest interview question you've ever been asked?

Daryl Sanford: 15:49

Wow, the weirdest interview question. Oh yeah, one of them recently. Well, it wasn't that recent, but somebody asked what upsets you? That was it what upsets you? And they were they're kind of looking for like a quick response or just being able to think on your feet. But it took me back because I'm kind of like what upsets? Like? I don't want to be negative, I don't want to talk about something that I so it really gave me, gave me pause, I had to think about that one pretty hard and and ultimately they were. They didn't really care what upseted me, they just wanted to know how can I think on my feet? How do I come up with a response to a question I wasn't ready for?

Josh Matthews: 16:27

Well, you're sitting on this little little stool out here in Yerba Buena Park eating lunch and I'm throwing some questions at you and you're doing just fine, so I can tell you got the job.

Daryl Sanford: 16:38

Yeah, I did ultimately get the job Exactly. That's why practice makes perfect Practice interviewing, and you'll be good at it.

Josh Matthews: 16:44

It does. If there was any bit of career advice that you would be seeking in the next say, you know six months to five years, what? What's the thing that you would want to know to help you accelerate and grow your career?

Daryl Sanford: 16:57

Wow. I think I'd say the interesting thing is really about finding out what your personal goals are, and that's something that I think has evolved over time for each person. But a lot of times we look at the industry, we look at the job, we look at these different things and we don't stop and think about what's my personal goal? What am I after? Is it more money? Is it recognition? Is it leadership? Because those things don't all map the same way, especially as you grow in your career. So I think it's about just focusing on what's important to you and then be able to align that with the right career in the right industry.

Josh Matthews: 17:32

Darrell, thank you so much. I appreciate you chatting with me today.

Daryl Sanford: 17:36

Yeah, no problem, thanks, josh.

Josh Matthews: 17:38

Okay, what's your name and what do you do?

Dawn Glover: 17:41

My name is Don Yadda Glover, but everyone calls me Don. I work for a custom manufacturing company. We are a high pressure die casting company, so we make custom metal parts for Harley Davidson, Weber GMC.

Josh Matthews: 17:57

A terrific. Is this your very first dream for us?

Dawn Glover: 18:00

Yes, I'm a business analyst for them, sorry.

Josh Matthews: 18:04

OK, terrific. And then what's been the biggest surprise about this event so far?

Dawn Glover: 18:08

The biggest surprise was definitely for me. It was tab tablood gestures. I thought that was really cool.

Josh Matthews: 18:19

So it's something you think you can use in your work pretty immediately, potentially.

Dawn Glover: 18:23

Definitely. I know that I could use it. Our executives would love to use it. It's really cool.

Josh Matthews: 18:28

Excellent. Well, it's nice that they sent you out here for sure. Let me ask you this what's the best career advice that anybody ever gave you?

Dawn Glover: 18:37

The best career advice that anyone ever gave me is probably to just hang in there and go with the flow, keep adapting, keep learning and always just go the extra mile.

Josh Matthews: 18:49

You know, it's good to hear they say that adaptability is the number one thing that most employers are looking for. It's the, it's the it's the trait that's in highest demand in the ecosystem right now, because I think people are dealing with shorter staffs or smaller staffs and people have to wear more hats, which means we have to change. And then, of course, with AI and everything else that's going on, we've got to. Like you know, everyone's doing flows, then they're not. Now they're doing this and then they're doing that. Right.

Dawn Glover: 19:14

Yeah, definitely. I actually also served in the military and that was just the first skill that I learned and it's been helpful throughout my career.

Josh Matthews: 19:22

Well, thanks for your service. You know we had a special in July right around. We did it on July 5th and I had David Navar he's a golden hoodie and he was on the show and so we've got two episodes on the podcast that are dedicated just to military, so feel free to check those out. My name is.

Job Ochieng: 19:37

Joe Bucing. I'm the senior director of IT for Alliance Laundry Systems, based out of Wisconsin. And is this your first dream force? This?

Josh Matthews: 19:46

is my first dream force, and what's been the most Well, what's been the biggest surprise so far?

Job Ochieng: 19:53

I think the biggest surprise for me is just understanding Salesforce a little bit more and just how we can use it in an environment like ours that has a lot of different applications and that are standalone right now. But what we can be able to do to actually bring the business together, bring the applications together to be able to make our practices more efficient and have the information at the fingertips of our executive leaders.

Josh Matthews: 20:22

Yeah, efficiency, ai, customer 360, pulling, everything together, yeah, exactly.

Job Ochieng: 20:28

And I think from the customer 360, I also liked a little bit about the manufacturing 360, which also touches on sales, touches on manufacturing, you know, touches on so many processes that we've been talking about wanting to bring together.

Josh Matthews: 20:42

Let me ask you this what's the best career advice anyone ever gave you? Build relationships.

Job Ochieng: 20:47

That's one thing that I was told very early on in my career and I've seen that happen, even just when you partner, have strategic partners that you build relationships with, and what do you think is the key to building relationships?

Josh Matthews: 21:00

Be open, just be open-minded.

Job Ochieng: 21:03

Give people a chance to hear what they have to bring. So when you go into a place, remove all the preconceived ideas. Have an open mind to see what the other person has to say. Joe, that's terrific advice.

Josh Matthews: 21:15

What's the weirdest interview question anybody ever asked you? I think, when they ask me like what are?

Job Ochieng: 21:22

my strength and weaknesses. I don't think anybody ever goes to the mirror and sees. You know what is strength and weaknesses. You need relationships around you that can tell you what your blind spots are. Those are the people who can tell you what your weaknesses are. Strengths are normally what you gravitate to and what you're good at. If there is something that you would like to know, that would help accelerate your career.

Josh Matthews: 21:41

It sounds like you're having a great career already, and so congratulations on that. But if there was one thing you know, one question that you would ask a top recruiter or a career coach, what would you want to know?

Job Ochieng: 21:55

What is some of the things that the companies that would hire somebody that can be looking for and what can I do to be able to allow myself to be attracted to those careers or those industries or organizations?

Josh Matthews: 22:10

Yeah, it's a great question and of course I guess it would depend on what your job is and who you are and these sorts of things. We never want to tailor ourselves to a company. We want to find the companies that we're already tailor made for. Does that make sense?

Job Ochieng: 22:24

Yes, that makes absolute sense. For example, in the information technology space, I'm not going to fit in every company, and every company is not going to want somebody like me. There's different parts that we have to look at, and we also have to look at what do we bring to the table to the company? What does the company bring to me that can actually bring the best out of me too?

Josh Matthews: 22:43

What's the biggest challenge that you and your organization are facing for bringing on top Salesforce talent?

Job Ochieng: 22:49

I think the biggest challenge right now we're facing is understanding that integration is key. Right now you have a lot of stand-alone silos and people are not understanding it. If you bring everything together, there's so much wealth in working together as an organization.

Josh Matthews: 23:05

And so when you do need to bring people on board, are you able to find them fairly easily, or is it quite a challenge?

Job Ochieng: 23:11

It's been challenging because when you work for an organization that has a little bit of legacy stuff and you're finding people out there who've moved their skill sets to the next best thing, nobody wants to look backwards, everybody's looking for the forefront.

Xavier Emery: 23:26

Hey, I'm Xavier Emery. I'm the marketing lead for IPCero, an entity data company, and we are a sponsor here at Dreamforce and we are a Salesforce partner for all the Salesforce product integration and we also have with our IPCero company. We are an expert in mule soft integrations.

Josh Matthews: 23:47

Tell me what's the biggest surprise or your biggest takeaway from Dreamforce this year.

Xavier Emery: 23:53

I think. Well, obviously it was all about AI, and I don't think that was a surprise, because we knew where it was coming. I think what's interesting is the way Salesforce is tackling the subjects. It's not about making us dream of some kind of a future with robots that would just control us. I think it was kind of like a reality check what is AI today? Where are we at? And I can only make sure that it serves a purpose and that it can be very helpful for your companies, while maintaining a high level of trust, confidentiality and data security. So I think Salesforce is leading a good battle here, because a lot of people are just happy that we have some shiny AI technologies out there, but they don't really worry about what bias it could bring to our companies or our societies.

Josh Matthews: 24:52

Yeah, it's not a world robot takeover. We're not Terminator quite yet, are we?

Xavier Emery: 24:56

No, I don't think so.

Josh Matthews: 24:58

Okay, what's the best career advice anybody ever gave you?

Xavier Emery: 25:02

To pay attention to people. When you meet people, remember their name, remember their face, remember what they do and network all the time, not just when you need it. And I think that in today's world, that's key, because that's where you're going to find mentors, that's where you're going to find role models to follow. And also, yeah, when tough times happens, when you are a little lost or when you're looking for new opportunities, those people are the ones that will bring you to the next level. So, yeah, pay attention to the people you meet. And in the world today where we are all some people working from home it's more remote and such. I think it's even more important. And actually an event like Dreamforce is actually the best place to connect with people that you might be following on social media all year long, you might have never met in person before, and suddenly they are here and you can actually engage in meaningful conversation and create those human being bonds. So, in the world of AI, I think that's probably the best advice I was given.

Josh Matthews: 26:08

If you could hire one person, just press a button and magically have a new person on your staff to help you. What would they do?

Xavier Emery: 26:17

Well, that's funny. In the world of AI, that person would be, for me, a content person, a copywriter, someone who has an understanding of how technical things are in our space and can write it in an appealing way to all stakeholders. And I know that there is a lot of discussions about replacing these people by AI and I think that, in some ways, do's technologies will help news copy writers and news creative people in general to maybe like facilitate some kind of brainstorming steps on how to structure whatever they are creating. But at the end of the day, that human touch, that's those brain connections that make it the right story for the right people. I believe in these people and right now in my team I don't have that person. So that would be that person a creative person.

Xavier Emery: 27:12

I think creativity is what's missing, especially in enterprise software. It's technical, right, but at the end of the day and I think Salesforce is amazing in that way that they manage to bring all those characters and all that culture around the software it's not just about software. People are not coming to Dreamforce just to talk about the last text, right? They're also here to take a picture with Astro.

Josh Matthews: 27:40

I got mine done yesterday or two days ago.

Xavier Emery: 27:42

Yeah, I mean I just got Jeannie that I missed last year and I saw Zigg De Zebra yesterday, so I'm all set.

Josh Matthews: 27:49

Terrific. Hey, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

Xavier Emery: 27:52

Thank you.

Josh Matthews: 27:54

Thanks again, everybody, for tuning in and catching this very special live episode of the Salesforce career show. Next week we will be joined by none other than Vanessa Grant, our very own, and Vanessa is going to be doing something special. In fact, she'll be sharing the do's and don'ts to help you find your place in the Salesforce ecosystem. This comes from one of her Dreamforce presentations and it's a presentation I believe she's given elsewhere as well. It's going to be really interesting and we're confident it's going to help spark some interest and likely some direction to help you have a successful career. So if you've never been to our live broadcast, you can join us every other Wednesday, and that is at 230 Pacific, 530 Eastern, on Twitter or X. Okay, if you want to stay in tune with how to follow them, check out at the Josh force. That's my tag, my handle and all announcements are going to be there. Okay, thanks so much, everybody. Have a wonderful day and thanks for tuning in as usual. Bye for now.