The Salesforce Career Show
The podcast dedicated to helping you HIRE, GET HIRED and SOAR HIGHER in the SALESFORCE ecosystem.
Enjoy these live recordings of The Salesforce Career Show from X Spaces and YouTube's JoshForce. A guest + AMA format hosted by Josh Matthews, founder of Salesforce Staffing, LLC, Joshforce and The Expand Exchange and Vanessa Grant, Dreamforce speaker, 9X certified BA, consultant and social media darling. Recordings are 3x per month.
The Salesforce Career Show
Live from Dreamforce - Marketing Careers, AI Impact, and the Journey of Personal Growth
Ready to harness the power of Salesforce and supercharge your marketing career? Join us as we navigate the Salesforce ecosystem with top Salesforce marketing industry experts Christina Anderson, Sarah Hernandez, and Shonika Mitchell. They share their insights and experiences, providing practical strategies to enhance your business needs and customer desires. We delve into the exciting world of generative AI data cloud and its potential implications for Salesforce marketing.
A career transition can be daunting, but it doesn't have to be. Learn from Christina's experience and discover the resources that can help you gain the necessary skills. We also share a word of caution for those considering volunteering opportunities, especially with nonprofits. But it's not all about technical skills. We share our personal journeys and emphasize the importance of passion and connections in the industry.
What does personal growth look like in the Salesforce ecosystem? Our panelists discuss how their careers have influenced their wardrobe choices, relationships, and self-confidence. We also explore the potential impact of AI on careers. It's not just about building a career; it's also about knowing yourself. We discuss the importance of understanding your personality type when charting your career path. So, tune in for a lively discussion, some fashion tips, and a deep dive into career paths in the Salesforce ecosystem.
And now the number one audio program that helps you to hire, get hired and soar higher in the Salesforce ecosystem. It's the Salesforce career show with Josh Matthews and Vanessa Grant.
Josh :Okay, everybody, welcome to the Salesforce career show. My name is Josh Matthews. I'm usually joined by my cohost, vanessa Grant. I'm always busy doing sessions. We are here right now at the Pink Elephant Alibi with our friends from Sir Conte who've been so generous to offer us this space to have a live show and, at their request, we're going to be focusing on marketing careers, ideally specifically within the Salesforce ecosystem, but there are plenty of folks up here that can answer your questions and give you some really good sound advice. Quick little bit on me. I run thesalesforcerecruitercom. It's also called Salesforce Staffing. We specialize in placing direct hire professionals as well as contract professionals within the Salesforce ecosystem, and if you'd like to find out a little bit more about us, visit thesalesforcerecruitercom. And if you'd like to experience some really awesome past shows that we've conducted, by all means please visit the Salesforce career show. It's available on Spotify, apple, google and about 17 or 18 other platforms. So with that, I'd love to hear from the panel. Today we have Christina Anderson. Go ahead and give us a quick introduction, christina.
Christina:Thank you, josh. Hi everyone, I'm Christina Anderson, the marketing strategist at Sir Conte. I've been in the Salesforce ecosystem now for about five or six years and I'm excited to be here. Sir Conte for those of you who don't know we focus on marketers on the Salesforce platform, making them wildly successful. For the podcasters listening right now, I'm actually wearing a marketers, data and analytics data, cloud and CRM. We focus on everything to make sales and marketers wildly successful on the platform, and I'm actually joined here by my colleague today, sarah Hernandez, as well.
Sarah:Yes, thank you Christina. Hi everyone, I'm Sarah Hernandez. I'm a director of delivery at Sir Conte. So, like Christina was saying, we focus on really everything in the Salesforce ecosystem, but our bread and butter is really that marketing focus. So my background is in marketing. I worked for a manufacturing company in product marketing and in sales team enablement, and that's what brought me to the Salesforce ecosystem. So just said yes, and here I am and now I'm on this podcast today. I will pass it to Shanika Mitchell, who works at Bright Drop.
Shonika:Hi everybody. I'm Shanika Mitchell from Bright Drop. I don't work at Sir Conte, but I have hired Sir Conte as my consulting agency, so I feel like part of the Sir Conte family. I've been in the Salesforce ecosystem since 2010 and am in charge of marketing, cloud account engagement and social for Bright Drop.
Josh :Well, thanks for those terrific introductions, and it's so nice to be sitting out here at Dreamforce on a beautiful sunny day with some wonderful friends and visitors here on the benches. So let's kick this off with a question. Who would like to ask the very first question today, and we'll see what we can do to help support you in your career. All you have to do is stand up and come up to the microphone right now. There we go. Okay, we've got Dee from Boca Raton.
Dee:Hello, Dee Cerrico, I'm very happy to be here at the Sir Conte wonderful podcast. My question today is we've heard a lot about generative AI data cloud and how it can work with Salesforce marketing cloud. What are your thoughts on it?
Josh :Look, I think it's awesome, but I'm not an expert, so I'm going to pass it to the tech professionals here sitting with me.
Sarah:Great. Okay, you said generative AI data cloud and how it works. With marketing cloud, I'm actually going to take a higher level approach to answering this question because I also am not super technical. I wouldn't say I'm an expert in this area, but really who is? It's all so new.
Sarah:So I would say the best thing to do is look at what your business needs, what you're doing today from on your marketing strategy side, what your customers are looking for, and I would say, look for those inefficiencies. Where am I missing the data? Where do I need to pull the data in? Where could I use some of that AI support that my team is using today, that I don't have and that I could use a technology like that for? The last thing we want to do is buy something just to buy something. We definitely want to have their rationale there behind it. So, and I'd also say, don't be intimidated by it. Ai data cloud sounds really complex and overwhelming, but I think there's a lot to learn here. There's a lot of resources around us, and I think the Salesforce community is really good about sharing that knowledge. So I'd say, don't be intimidated by it. For one and two, don't buy it just to buy it.
Josh :Yeah, definitely don't buy it just to buy it, and I'll go to Shanika here in just a moment. But I went to an amazing demo. It was for Formula One. I'm a big F1 fan. I try to get to every Miami race Well, there's only been two, so I've been to all of them.
Josh :But I went to the F1 demo over in the Moscone Center where they demonstrated customer 360 data cloud and marketing cloud and how it all works together. And I've got to tell you it's just some of the most amazing technology and being an end user someone who spends thousands of dollars on F1 for tickets and all of these sorts of things and how they put it all together and how quickly the AI can figure out not just things for, like service cloud if you buy a t-shirt and you order two but you really only wanted one and how quickly that can generate, but how it can very quickly create these email campaigns, these marketing campaigns that are so dialed in. I mean, they're for you. They understand you already. They know your buying habits. The AI is helping to support the buying habits of the consumer and it's beautiful stuff. Of course, you have to have good quality content already and it's all got to be in the right buckets for the AI to work, but certainly there's going to be something on YouTube or that you can find online.
Josh :If you can watch the F1 demo, either while you're here or while you're, you know, from your computer, I definitely recommend it because that will answer your question very easily. I would like to, if we can identify some questions in the audience or even from my panel here that are really around careers, because that's what we focus on here, right? So where are you now? Where do you want to go? What's inhibiting you? What are the obstacles to your success? Okay, we've got Felice. Welcome Felice. It's always great to have you here and, just so everybody knows, this is, I think, the third event that we've got to hang out at Correct, we did Florida Dreaming, we did Life Sciences Dreaming and now we're doing Dreamforce. So glad to have you here.
Felice:Right, thank you so much. So I am curious that if people want to make the move to a consulting position or a company position with Marketing Cloud, how can you make that transition if you don't already have experienced Marketing Cloud but you do have experience with Sales Cloud and other Salesforce products?
Josh :It's a really good question. I'll just tell you right now you got to get on Trailhead and you got to knock it out. Right, it used to be with Salesforce certifications. These were to prove the knowledge that you already had on your job. Right, let's test this person, see if they actually know what they're doing. It's become more of like a barrier to entry into the ecosystem at all. So you really start with Trailhead. Now you start with the certifications and hope and pray to God that you actually get to get your hands on the real thing, not just a sandbox that's what I was actually going to piggyback on is I heard a little whisper of some free licenses.
Shonika:I don't know what the details are or the criteria for getting some of those free licenses, but I was told that there are some available for some of the generally available functions that we saw and features that we saw. So maybe there, and then, as a second piece, I've seen a couple of opportunities to volunteer for things like nonprofit, where you could get your hands on some of the tools I've also participated recently in. Basically, a new consulting agency was coming on board and they wanted to walk through what a training would look like for a future client, and so they asked me to volunteer to kind of play you know client so that they could walk their team through roles and responsibilities and how they would align a future training for a future customer. So, yeah, just three options there.
Josh :I'd like to piggyback. We're just going to use the microphone if you want to ask anything else, but let me piggyback on that real quick. Okay, because you brought up something really important. Shanika is like, how do you get the experience when you don't have experience? And it's hard, right, it's the. It's like if you could answer that that's the panacea for everyone who's trying to break into anything in the world, right, and you can do it.
Josh :And your recommendation, or one of the things that you're aware of, of course, is that there are these volunteer opportunities. Now, just a strong word of caution for that, and we talk about this on the show a lot. In fact, if you listen to Peter Gonza, who's a regular guest on our show, he's got a very strong opinion about this, which is don't go to a nonprofit and when you know nothing, because it's so expensive to mess up their org if you don't know what you're doing. So if you can go to a nonprofit and they need an extra hand, right that there's already a head chef in the kitchen and you're going to learn how to prep, cook, like, go for it. That's great.
Josh :But if they want to break into marketing cloud, or they want it implemented or they want it designed and configured and you're brand new and you've never done it.
Josh :That is not the time and place to learn, because, first of all, nonprofits don't have a lot of money in general. Some of them do, but they usually don't right, and so the mistakes that you can make can be a real challenge, and you just don't want to learn it on the back of them. If that makes sense, nothing wrong with volunteering, nothing wrong with getting an experience, but always have a mentor, someone that you can lean on. You might be able to find them on Ohana Slack. You might be able to find them in a variety of communities, and if anybody's interested in where they can go to identify communities, videos, influencers, blogs, vloggers, people like that, to get a lot of fresh information that's not just going to be hosted on Salesforcecom. I definitely encourage you to check out the expand exchange. It's just expand exchangecom, and that is a directory that my co-host, vanessa, and I put together for the very purpose that I just described, so you can check that out too.
Felice:Thank you, I didn't know about that. So the two certs that I was most familiar with, our email marketing and then marketing cloud. So are there any other, either new ones or other ones that you would point me to, since you say getting those certs and getting trailhead experience is important, or super badges?
Josh :Yeah, I'll tell you. Look, there are a number of them and I can't. I don't have them in front of me, I'm not in front of my computer, I can't remember all of them, but I'm sure you guys can. So we'll point it maybe to. Christina can help or you can help here.
Josh :But the reality is is the first thing I would ask yourself is why do you want to switch lanes? Do you have experience in marketing already? What is it that you're passionate about? Why do you like that? Why marketing cloud? Why not sales and service? There are more sales and service jobs. There's more competition for it as well.
Josh :Right, there's fewer barriers to entry on the sales and service track to start with, and then you can go into CPQ and some of these other things. But really ask yourself why do I want to sell things through marketing to people? What is it about that role? What are the daily tasks I'm going to be doing? What's the impact I'm going to have on my community, on the country, on the businesses that I'm serving? And will that be enough fulfillment for me? Right? Because my dad always said look, do what you know, you'll always make more money. And he's not wrong. I really believe that I don't think he's wrong. Right, the more depth of experience that you have in something, the more likely you are to be an expert, and experts make more money, and that's just kind of how it works. Does that make sense? I'm getting a nod from Felice, so she understands. Let's focus on the actual certifications. Christina, can you speak to that? Thank you, go ahead and jump on here.
Christina:So you mentioned the email specialist Also too. I would just want to kind of add to what Josh was saying. I would really focus on what are you the most passionate about, like what gets you out of bed every morning, what do you get fired up about when you're having those conversations with different trailblazers and customers and figure out, like that, why, like what makes you the most curious. So, for example, there's also marketing cloud account engagement, like the specialist certification, the consultant certification. Those are certifications that I have, and then also there are more out there. So, number one, I would really just start doing your research on the different certifications that are out there and then start mapping out those trailheads. And three make a study plan for yourself and honestly book a date for that certification and hold yourself accountable. Start telling people about it. For example, tell Josh have an attention issue.
Sarah:Yes, yes, absolutely.
Christina:Exam. Find a buddy to help keep you accountable. Number two honestly, start building your personal brand and get out there and network. Josh mentioned Ohana Slack there's also the Pardasian Slack and start getting involved with user groups. There are so many user groups out there doing virtual webinars and presentations. Start attending those and hearing what they're talking about, and then any insights or thoughts that you have, questions, start posting those on social because I'll tell you what. So I used to be a Spanish teacher back in the day, yes, and here I am sitting in front of you today. So I've made a couple lane changes, as Josh mentioned.
Christina:And honestly, getting involved with those groups and starting to build a personal brand for yourself and networking. That way People remembered that and then you could potentially meet someone. Or if you put out there that like hey, you know, I just got laid off and you start reaching out to your network, that interview is going to come faster than you know it. Also, too, you mentioned like, how do you even get started? There are organizations out there that are willing to train you from the ground up. It's just a matter of finding them. So, coming in with the experience that you already have, because you already have a breath of experience from your career and then getting those technical skills, as Josh said, pairing up with a mentor and really leaning on them and asking them as many questions as you can to be curious, to learn, and then sharing that learning with the community, like all those things that I would say are going to really help you make that transition. But, sarah and Shanique, anything to add there?
Sarah:I just want to piggyback on what both Josh and Christina were saying about following your passion. I manage a team and so this comes up often like what certifications can I get to get to the next level? What certifications do I need to reach the certain level? And it's I always say stop focusing on who you think you should be, or that certain like whether it's money or title. Like let's focus on your passion, because if you're chasing a marketing cloud developer sir, but your passion is really in you know, like part I and those nurture programs, or you're really passionate about data architecture, that marketing cloud developer sir is going to cause you. It's going to cost you more time and money, really, at the end of the day, than if you were to just stay true to your passions and what you're truly wanting to do with the rest of your career.
Josh :Yeah, you guys make absolutely fantastic points and I couldn't, I really couldn't agree more.
Shonika:I really love that advice. Yeah, I have nothing to add. That was perfect, yeah it was great Following your passion.
Josh :But, guys, when we, when we think about our career, it's a, it's not just a straight line up, right, it's a big zaggy road and we go all over the place. And you know, feliz, we were talking, you know, almost a year ago, about your career and your trajectory and these sorts of things. And here we are, you know, almost a year later, you know, maybe 11 months later, as you can tell, like, the more you get into it, the more you figure out. It's like we never talked about marketing cloud until today, right? So, like, these things come up and then you just got to get in and see if it, if it feels right, and I strongly recommend making a friend who's already doing it and finding out. A great example is I was at well when we were both at life sciences, dreamin one of my sons, oliver. He's 17 years old, he's going to be going into college in a year and he's decided he wants to be a physical therapist, which is terrific, it's great career, they have a very happy life in general, and I was introduced to someone at the event who is a physical therapist and is now trying to make a switch to Salesforce. So we got to chatting and he offered to talk to Oliver about. You know what are the downsides of that role? Like you know, we talked about this in, I think, the last episode about.
Josh :Everybody starts with this sort of like unlimited optimism, or what we call uninformed optimism and Fred, you were there, I think we were talking about you know uninformed optimism. And then what happens is you finally like get to this point where you know enough stuff that it's like, oh shit, this is hard, or like I've got obstacles, or like this is not going great, right. But now you're informed. You have informed pessimism, Okay. So now you're like bummed out because you know more, and what you know means things are going to get harder and harder and harder. And if we don't get to a point of informed optimism again quickly, what happens is we're going to just come over that hill, it's going to drop right down. And then you have this moment where you have to make a decision to stick it out. You just got to tough it out, right, but you just have to. There's no way around it for anybody, for all of you, wherever you are in your careers.
Josh :Right now, sitting here in front of us, there was a moment where you could have quit and you didn't. There was a moment where you could have changed lanes, but you chose to stick to the one that you were on, and only because you got through that barrier Are you now where you are today. Make sense. So just be careful of switching lanes just because something's hard or something's not working out. You're better off getting better and better and better at that thing and then squishing through it, because otherwise you'll be like, oh, marketing cloud, yay, awesome, this is sweet. And then you're going to get to a point like, oh crap, this is really hard.
Josh :And what about CPQ? Okay, so, like, pick one, go for it, but pick wisely, as Shanika said. Like you know, you got to be smart about it. But great questions, all right, who else would like to ask a question? We're here for you, right? You're sitting here for a reason. It's because you probably want to know something more about how to earn more money, have more respect, get more time off by the things that you want. All of those things. Yeah, come on up and please just go ahead and state your name and tell us what you do.
Will:My name is William. I'm currently direct to consumer marketing. Actually, previously born retail sash toys, now do theatrical marketing. So movies and TV show fun Good for you. Yeah, trying to make a switch over to a different type of role. So it's either going to be product marketing or brand manager, because it's specifically the data analytics and consumer insights part that I want to work on.
Will:So the issue is hey, depending on which path I take, there's different barriers. If it goes down to product marketing, it's trying to get the shot because I've done the certifications and done the work. I've been trying to freshen up on my sequel and my tableau as well.
Josh :Okay.
Will:But it's about getting the chance to get some hands on stuff going on Sure. Brand manager that I have not directed consumer experience, but the problem is most roles required that have actually directly worked with IRI, nielsen, spin and so forth. I've worked with first party streaming data but not specifically syndicated data. That's per se, or rather I never actually seen a data set where I can actually tell the difference. Sure.
Josh :Yeah.
Will:So that's the other thing. Basically, how do I get like someone to give me a shot?
Josh :Yeah, that's a good question. Let me ask you first what do you really want to do? I mean, you got two things on the table here, pick one.
Will:Sorry.
Josh :Come closer. Yeah, I don't bite. Come here buddy, come here Will. Okay, you've got two things on the table. Which one do you really want? I mean, you know in your heart already which one do you really want, not which one's going to be hardest, which one's going to make the most money. Which one do you actually want? To do, like if you could just like quick decide what is it? Brand manager? Okay, so you want to be a brand manager?
Will:Just if you CPG or back to toys.
Josh :Okay, perfect. So now you know. So don't forget about the other thing. Get rid of it in your head. Does that make sense? Sure, like if you know what you want to do, and sometimes we we're hedging ourselves with multiple options and what happens? I mean, if you took a, if I take this cup of water I got a cup of water here for those who are just listening if I pour all of it into another cup and it's a smaller cup, it's gonna fill all the way up, but if I pour it into two small cups, it's gonna fill a half way. You don't want to be halfway on anything, do you?
Will:I mean it's like depends on what's actually possible.
Josh :No, you don't. I'm telling you, you don't, okay. And the reason why you don't is because you won't succeed because you're in a competition for career. You understand that right, like everybody's in a competition, we're all in a specific economy. If you own a house, you might not know it, but you're actually in the rental market because you're living there, not making income by renting out the property. We're always in an economy, okay, and you're in a career economy right now, and so you have and this is not dissimilar, I think, fred, about what we talked about with um. Oh, it was who's that guy that we like the weightlifter who grew a business, andy, something for me or something like that. You know, it's like like I've got a business. We do one thing we play Salesforce professionals. If I play Salesforce professionals and do career coaching and do AWS and Azure, how good are we gonna be at any of them? Well, I'm telling you we're not gonna be great at any of them. You just won't.
Josh :What you want to do is be the best in class. We want to be the obvious choice. Does that make sense? Because the people that you're competing for with a job, there are people out there and they've spent their entire life focused a hundred percent on being a good brand manager and acquiring that position. Does that make sense for you? Sure, okay, so that's your competition. So if you want to compete with those people because they're the ones who are getting the most pay, they're the ones who are getting the best logos to work for right, they're the ones that are getting the largest organizations to manage their brands for the sexiest brands too Okay, you're in competition.
Josh :So you really have to pick one now. If you pick one and you get really good at it and then you want to add to your skill set and level up and do some other things, it's nothing wrong with that. But if you're at this sort of you're not at the start of your career, clearly, but you're like you're trying to move it into a certain direction if you point yourself in two directions, you're gonna tear yourself apart and you're gonna fail. I'm not saying you're gonna fail. I'm not a prognosticator. I'm not saying you are going to fail. Well, you're already doing the right things. You're here, you're asking questions, so good for you. Like you're getting advice. You're already doing it, buddy, but I strongly encourage you to pick one and go with it now for the other part of your question, which is like what comes next and like how to be a brand manager. I'm not an expert in that, so let me point it to the brand manager here, who's sitting at the table.
Shonika:I'm not a brand manager, but I can take close enough.
Josh :Okay, thank you.
Shonika:I would attempt to suggest and I don't know your company structure, but I would see what projects are going on like partner with or ask for one-on-ones from that brand manager, see if there are opportunities for you to like volunteer. Maybe it's the project manager for the overall project that they're getting ready to do. Maybe they're going through a rebranding right. Maybe they are like have a big project that they're working on and you just want to help and support. I think that'd be a good way for you to at least test the waters free of charge per se and Ensure that it's really something that you want to be part of. Are there opportunities?
Will:like that my field office is a team of 18. I'm number 18. I'm the first hiring in three years, so there's no room to go parallel or up or even down actually. So I've been looking to do some volunteer work, which is where, okay, product marketing makes a lot more sense because, like oh, there's causes I would be happening to do, like oh, I'm going to like help like animal foster shelters or I'm going to help with like these different client platforms and healthcare, like that's kind of where I'm starting to explore.
Josh :I'm kind of curious Well, what would it be like for you If you went down that product manager role two years down the road? Okay, you get your first job and, but you still want to be a brand manager, like you picked it because you're seeing more things online or some more ads, you know, for jobs, or like it's easier to get into.
Will:It'll be equal because if I go down product marketing, I'll be specifically doing some things that are Beneficial societies. I'll be looking for healthcare, education and stuff like that. That's very satisfying. If I go down the toy manufacturer out, that's still fun. That's as far as different. A different bucket. Yeah, so it's like toys. You. I would probably want both in my life, regardless. This is a question of like okay, what's going to be my primary career? Yeah, what's kind of like stuff I may I do on the side.
Josh :Yeah, well, let's, let's talk about yeah, go ahead.
Sarah:Yes, if I could give some advice. I also worked in product marketing in a past life and it wasn't just product marketing that I was after. It gave me so much more Insight into the business in general because you were, I was working with those product managers, so I was learning about P&L, I was learning about Margins, I was learning about working with finance and working with sales. I was learning more than just, and doing more than just, product marketing. So if you were looking for someone to give you some advice on which to go next, that would be my recommendation, purely for the fact that it gives you so much more insight into how a business works, what a company is doing, and you get more FaceTime with more people. You're learning how to work with teams on a larger scale and you're learning that that brand manager aspect could, could come in to play, but you're not doing that directly. So if you're looking for a direct answer, that would be my approach.
Josh :I think that's a great perspective.
Will:Thank you so much for sharing that product marketing works for me in that regard too, Because again I've done P&L. I built businesses from scratch for companies, Okay. So Product marketer would I mean product manager would make sense for me in the future as well, If I go down that path. It's just I never worked on a product.
Josh :I've worked on a retail store, right, it's like so for tails, for tautas, but still you know well, let me ask you this what do you think like, what do you think is the number one thing holding you back right now? And and by that I mean it could be the economy, it could be knowledge and skill set, it could be your resume. Hey, what do you think it is?
Will:knowledge and skill set, in that I don't have a lot of hand, specific, direct, hands-on experience, a lot of Transferable skills but not direct skills which, ultimately, when you're in this economy, when you compete with so many people right who have direct experience, yeah you're not. You're not the best thing, class, as you said.
Josh :Yeah well, it's like what we were talking about when Felice asked your question. You know you got to get a mentor. You need someone that you can lean on, someone who's going to Be a little bit of an extra backbone for you when you're entering these things and it's. I wish I had a magic button I could just be like here this is how you get experience. But connecting with people who are either brand managers or our product managers, you know.
Josh :Again, I still strongly recommend you pick one right, but connect with as many of them as you can on LinkedIn. Follow them, watch them, read them, you know, comment on their stuff, build your network. Look, you're in marketing, so market yourself. Do you see what I mean? Like, I mean, come on, like that's the job, like market yourself right, and if you ever need any help on that from a resume standpoint or how to network or how to connect, you have other episodes that cover that and we've got some videos on the website you that can help support you with your resume and things like that. But as far as like how to actually get the hands-on stuff in that specific skill set, I don't know if you guys have any other ideas about how we'll achieve that.
Shonika:Certifications, there's always the American marketing association. I like to lean on them a lot for thought leadership and Intel, and sometimes they have workshops and Certification programs that you could do as well yeah.
Sarah:I might also add you're working at an organization today. Is there anyone that you could shadow or talk with about their job? Take on some responsibilities, ask to learn more. I mean, it's always better when more than one person in an organization you know how to do the same job, never know.
Will:Techling. I'm the only one of my kind because it's such a small office. I actually am introducing analysts because traditionally they did marketing campaigns. They never bothered to do any reporting on whether or not it was effective or not, so I'm trying to teach them. Hey, you should try looking at your dashboards.
Josh :Yeah, here's a strong recommendation for you, for me which is to switch companies, doing exactly what you're already doing. Okay, because when you're in a team of 18 people, there's something really nice about that, I. When there's only 18 people, most people have to wear a lot of hats, right, that's a good thing. But upward momentum and sideways, you know, upward advancement is limited. Sideways advancement is also limited, because you don't want to take someone else's cheese. You know what I mean. But if you can get involved in an organization that's at least a couple hundred people, right, doing exactly what you do now. Careful with how you interview, because they're going to want you for the job that you are applying for, not for the job that you want in two years, right, so you just got to be a little bit careful with that. But that will give you the opportunity to identify after time where has responsibility been abdicated? Okay, this is a big one.
Josh :I say this a lot on the show, a lot. Where has responsibility been abdicated? And then you fill that void by doing the work that someone else isn't doing. Maybe someone's doing something and they're not doing it. Well, you offer help. Maybe something's not doing. Someone's not doing something, maybe they're not whatever integrating AI or whatever it is and you can bring that. So just look for what isn't getting done. But in a small company you're going to be more challenged for that, so hopefully that helps. Thank you, will. I appreciate you coming here today. All right, who else would like to ask a question? We're here to help you and help get your career going, so please just stand up and come on forward.
Janet:Thank you so much for letting me have an opportunity to ask you a question. It's kind of an unusual one, as your career was growing and you were getting more and better. You're getting more and more opportunities, you're getting more visible in your industry. How did you change personally and how did that impact who you were, and if that impacted the way you carried yourself or the way you dressed or the way your appearance, maybe your aesthetic or your wardrobe choices?
Josh :It's a great question. I could definitely answer that one. I was Mr. It doesn't always seem that way, but I'm actually very much a non-conformist. I don't dye my hair purple because I think that's actually conformist right now.
Josh :I'm actually a non-conformist and thought in a lot of ways, having worked at Fortune 500 companies I was a vice president at Robert Hath for a number of years, being in that very corporate structure people used to kind of I mean, I'd skateboarded to my clients, I wore weird clad pants, I ditched the suit. Now I couldn't do all that stuff until I was number one in the office and eventually, for a period of time, number one in the world. So you can get away with it when it's like, well, no one's going to fire me because of my funny pants that I like to wear, or because I'm wearing sneakers instead of loafers, or because I'm skateboarding instead of taking a taxi to clients. You see what I mean. So success sort of breeds more freedom with how you can carry yourself. I don't think that it's changed a lot about how I dress, really, except I'm going to afford nicer stuff, I suppose. But I'm still stingy and cheap when it comes to clothes. I don't know about that, as far as how is the career like, getting better at something, changed me. I'll tell you this.
Josh :I was kind of an angry youth. To be honest I was, you know, without going into too much, but I was kind of an angry guy, you know. I felt like there were a lot of stupid people in the world and it made me upset and frustrated and angry and I let it get to me. Okay, now there's still a lot of stupid people in the world, but there. But you know, the opportunity that being successful in the role has given me is the chance to talk to wonderful, smart, glorious people, amazing people. The friendships I've been able to develop throughout my career. The higher levels I go, the deeper those relationships go and the quieter that angry boy has become, if that makes sense. And I see and feel and experience a lot more love in the world than I used to and I it's always been there.
Josh :But we have these sort of like. You know it's like blurry eyes when we wake up, sometimes in our teens and sometimes in our twenties, and some people they're always looking through sort of gauze at the world and it's never really clear, you know. But what it really takes is accountability of oneself. So you know self accountability right, and it's easy to say that people nod to accountability, but what I really mean by that is being so dead honest.
Josh :Understand that when you're really honest with yourself, it's going to hurt because you're going to all of a sudden realize like, when you look yourself in the mirror, I'm not, that, I'm not as pretty as I think I am, I'm not as handsome as I think I am, I'm not as nice as I think I am, I'm not as generous as I think I am, I'm not as kind as I could be, I'm not as helpful as I could be, I'm more impatient than I imagine myself to be, and all blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and all of these things. That when we're really looking at ourselves, like, wow, do I pay attention, do I listen to people, do I care about their feelings? Of course I care, but am I reflecting that back to them and making and giving them a chance to feel that, like, these are complex things, right, but it's the number one thing? That anyway, and I believe this to the day people are like what's the number one thing you can do? I'm telling you it's like understand yourself, what are your limitations, don't be a victim, right and more importantly, like just don't be your own fool. We all fool ourselves, right? I mean, the fastest way to grow up is to be in a relationship with someone.
Josh :I don't know if anyone here agrees, but you know, if you're married or you have a partner, I mean they'll push you if you pick right. If you pick the right one, you're going to learn how to communicate better. They're going to tell you what your faults are if you've picked a good one, like they will, and then you've got to work on that constantly. I don't know if that answers your question. It does. It does Okay. I'd love to hear other people's perspective, because it's a beautiful question, a really important one. Thank you for asking. Can you tell us your name again, please, and what you do, janet? What do you do, janet? I'm a stylist.
Josh :You're a stylist? Okay, all right. Well, I hope you like my shirt today.
Sarah:I would love to hear from Christina how her style has changed from being a Spanish teacher to now being a kick-ass marketing strategist. Please share, please share, absolutely.
Christina:So, first of all, I feel like I have gained a lot more confidence in myself. And you might be thinking, oh, like, how does that actually look? So when you're in a classroom and you're with seventh and eighth graders all day, it's a lot different from sitting at a big round table and you're looking in the eyes of those CEOs, those VPs, and you're thinking to yourself how can I come in here really and carry myself or share that expertise? And I'll tell you what. My first experience I came in and I would sometimes hunch over my shoulders and my body language would start to show that I was nervous. And then, thank goodness for her, I got to give a shout out to Sarah Garris. She was one of my first mentors when I was transitioning over into the business world and she gave me that feedback and she actually told me to walk in there and pretend I was Beyonce and walk out there with Great feedback, walk out there with that confidence. And, honestly, what I did was I really just started observing others in leadership roles, looking to see how they acted, how they carried themselves, and also to I have to touch on this subject, being a woman in business. It's interesting because a lot of times you could be put in a room and where you are the only woman in a room full of men and I would look at our VP of people because she was a woman and I looked to see how she carried herself and people took her seriously.
Christina:So if there's one piece of advice I could give, it's to have faith in yourself. Know that you were hired for your position, for that specific expertise that you bring, and, honestly, never stop learning. If you're always learning and always doing your research, you're going to bring some insights to the table that some others might not and they're going to respect you for that. And also, don't be afraid to speak up. If you have done your research and you know that something a dis-business decision that someone might make, you could say, oh, like, may I offer a suggestion or may I give my opinion on that? They'll listen to you. Number two the other thing actually and this is a little counterintuitive that changed with me is that I really did everything I could to start listening to others more so, as a kid, I always told Christina you talk too much, which now, as I'm sure some of my coworkers know, I still can sometimes do that. But I actually read this book and it's called Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. Highly recommend it if you haven't read it.
Josh :One of my favorite books.
Christina:And he actually said that a lot of times the person with the most power in the room is the one that is doing the listening, because you are able to see how other people are reacting, what their expressions are, you're able to learn more about their personality and you might also learn something from them. And when you're able to do all of that and observe, you actually grow a lot as an individual. And a lot of times, when you are truly listening to someone and they feel heard about you, they're going to form a closer connection with you. So those would probably be two big things. I know that was a little long-winded.
Josh :It was, and I thought that was great. I'm glad that you brought up Chris Voss, because I'll actually be at Florida Dreaming and I'm going to be doing a session there on negotiating skills for Salesforce pros. It should be about a 45-minute session and I'm really looking forward to it. I've been a negotiator since I was 18 years old. A lot of us have been negotiating. My son's been negotiating since he was three. I've got two of them. One of them is a serious negotiator since he was three. So it's a skill set, right, and I know that that's not necessarily perfectly related to your question, but it's a career show. I'm going to talk about it for just a little bit. Read the book and always challenge yourself, but also challenge others too, and I love.
Josh :Another good book is the Five Dysfunctions of a Team, or is it the 10 Dysfunctions? I can't remember right. It's the Five. Thank you, fred. So the Five Dysfunctions of the Team. That starts out with this woman growing into a company and just not saying anything for two weeks. She's the new CEO, large company. She just went to the meeting. She didn't open her mouth, she paid attention and by the end, of course, she was able to figure things out very quickly and I'd read that book and I took on a new branch. I was a national director of the largest scientific staffing firm in Australia in Brisbane, and I just spent a little time watching the team watch how they work, figure out what's going on, because you can ask them what can we do better? You can ask them all these things, but it's so much better to see and just witness it. Then you really know. And then guess what you get to hold them accountable, and you get to do that with ourselves too.
Shonika:I think the last thing I'd say is don't be afraid to bring your whole self to work. So let's say you decide to segue out of being a stylist, right, and you want to go, maybe, into an office setting. If you have fun earrings you want to wear, don't be afraid to take those earrings to work. I think that's what makes you unique. It's going to make you a better employee. It's going to make you a better coworker, right.
Josh :Yeah, the only other thing I'd say around style and you probably know this because you're the stylist and not me my girlfriend dresses me, which is just fine. Thank God for that. Otherwise they just look like the guy who shops at mountain hardware every day. The idea is that understand that there are different personality types, but you can really simplify. They're visual people, they're auditory people and they're kinesthetic people Three main types, right, and visual people. Of course, you're going to wear louder things. They're going to wear more patterns, they're going to wear more colors. People who are more auditory tend to wear crazed dark blues, more muted dark greens. It's just a fact. They've studied this stuff. When you have a client, just try to understand that about them, because what might work great for your friend who's the extrovert, who talks with their hands and talks really fast for the sort of chilled out auditory person you got to show them more solids and things like that. A fashion advice here on the Salesforce Career Show Great question.
Josh :Thank you so much and I think we've got time for just one more question. Let's find out. Hey, rob, rob Thomason, would you have a question for the podcast that we can answer today, or anyone else? Last question, come on up to the mic, buddy. Okay, so we've got T-Bone coming up here. This is Rob Thomason. Rob Thomason has served his country well as a Navy SEAL. He's a good friend of mine. We've known each other for years. Rob, go ahead and share what you do right now, what your job title is.
Rob:So I'm the head of sales technology at GLG, gerson Lerman Group. We're a big consulting firm globally, right, I like to say we're accelerated diligence. You need to make decisions fast. You call us, so instead of six months to make a decision, pick a new logo, go a different direction. We help you with that, right? So I've been in the ecosystem about 12 years, recruited out of the military, as he said, I was a Navy guy, right. So I think the biggest thing I hear over and over again is if I'm just getting into Salesforce now, man, I'm 52. I'm an old timer. But if I'm 22, 23, getting in the ecosystem, what do I focus on? Like what should my career be? Like what path? Because back in the day there was like three or four certifications, now there's like a ton.
Rob:So, where do I go? What should help me make that decision? What are some good career choices or whatever right? So I mean you have the best advice on interviewing and everything else. So I'd love to hear, like, where you see things going. Is AI going to really be as big as it's painted to be? Should people focus on the AI path or revenue cloud or whatever? So I get that question a lot myself.
Josh :So specifically, the question is where should I go with my career? I'm new to this whole thing.
Rob:Yeah, so I'm getting into the ecosystem, right, because it's blinding. Do I go service cloud, sales cloud, ai cloud, like what do I do?
Josh :Yeah, I think most people's path starts with admin right, but fortunately they have the associate certification now, so that's a little bit.
Rob:In AI.
Josh :Well, it's not in AI, right, but look, ai is going to. Whether we like it or not, ai is going to impact you. You're either going to be buying more things that you like because the marketing is working right, even if you're not working in AI. You're probably going to need to understand how to utilize just simple AI stuff like chat, gpt-4 or something like that, just to help you with your job, not to be your voice.
Josh :I hate it when people just say I need an article on how to be a good marketer and they type it in and then it spits it out because there's so much drivel, nonsense, boring stuff. You can find that on the net already, right. So understand in what way can you utilize AI initially to support your career, and you can actually use it right now to understand what career paths you're curious about through conversation with AI. The one thing that you have to remember is AI has got all of this knowledge, but a lot of it, depending on which product you're using, it hasn't combed the internet for three years, so two and a half years, right. So you've got to be real careful with that. As far as actually picking a career, I think people should take a personality profile test.
Rob:Start with the why.
Josh :Yeah, I would start with the why. And now my favorite is Myers-Briggs. It's something that I'm very competent in. I understand it. I can spend time with someone and usually figure out what their one of 16 personality profile types are, what the advantages disadvantages are, how they process information, how they process their feelings and what they actually see in the world and how they make decisions. Right Now, we know our selves, but sometimes we can't articulate it if that makes sense, and what's really nice about these personality tests is that it articulates it for you.
Josh :I remember taking my very first one. I was 18 years old, I was going to Whittier College in Los Angeles and I took the thing and it said did I procrastinate like crazy, but I always get it done? I'm like, oh my god, how does it know that? Right, like it didn't ask me any questions about procrastination. How in the world does it know that? So even my girlfriend Casey and I we took them and she's I'm an ENTJ. I'm just barely any, but I'm an ENTJ and she's an INFP. Okay, so we're opposite on three of the four, right, but understanding how someone processes feelings, how they process good news, how they process bad news, all of those things, and then really what careers you can take. So I'll tell you I took a career test when I was 24 years old I was living in Portland and it said the top two things that I could do would be a litigation attorney, which actually would be a lot of fun, but I'm kind of a slow reader and it seemed like a lot of work for me, so I didn't do it.
Josh :Or being some sort of senior role in human resources, and of course that's where I am. I already was in that when I took the test, right and so and by the way, it doesn't have to be Salesforce. So many people are like, oh, salesforce, and I'm going to get into Salesforce and then bring the Salesforce. It's not some golden egg, okay, like it's not just rainbow and gold. There are so many jobs, there's millions of jobs. There's so many companies, there's so many. If you're into tech, so much tech out there. This is the Salesforce career show, but it's really just a career show, okay, and so like ask yourself, well, why Salesforce? Right, and it can't get-.
Rob:Let's start there, start with why.
Josh :Start with why it can't even be because your cousin said, oh, I think you'd like that, or because you know your brother's doing it and he's finally making more money than you Like. It can't be like that. But most people have been told something about six blocks from here, at the Embarcadero in 1993. I was walking around over there. One of my roommates had an office at the Embarcadero. We lived up on Haight-Ashbury and I ran into my friend Perry. We were roommates and Perry told me it's like, man, you should be a recruiter. Like. He told me this when I was 19, 20 years old he's like you should be a recruiter, you'd be great at it, right. Everyone's told you. Whoever's listening to this and speaking to the general audience here has told you oh, you'd be great at blank Right. And if you trust that person, maybe they're right, right. And if you want to confirm it, take a test and then just start there.
Josh :I think that some often, people are forced to make a decision at a point in their career, not a point in their career. They're already making decisions and they're already. They're not even down the path. They're trying to make decisions one or two steps ahead, right, but life's a little bit like chess. You got to open with a pawn, right, you're still protected. You got one piece on the table that's moved forward. Like, start thinking about where you want to go with your next move, your second, your third, your fourth move, but don't. I mean, you know, smart people can think of the end game, right, like Queen's Gambit and all that stuff. But you've got to make one move at a time and make a decision in that moment.
Josh :So if someone's saying, and then you've got a question, why are you making that decision? Why Salesforce people? Why in the world do you want to work within the Salesforce ecosystem? I mean, I've got a lot of reasons why. But why not any of the other product companies? Why not any other platforms? Why not non-tech? You know, why not be a psychologist or a physical therapist or a litigation attorney?
Rob:I'll tell you this the best advice you ever gave me, josh, was you asked me to remember what you're bad at. Like, focus on what you're great at. Do you remember? You're like hey, if I talk to your family, what are you bad at, what are your weeks? Because everyone knows they're good things, right, everyone knows what they're great at. But you have to keep in your brain somewhere what you're bad at, what you're not good at, and improve those things. So your advice is always golden. You're the brain food, god. So thank you.
Josh :Thank you.
Rob:Like never got a bad piece of advice about anything Careers, food, booze, whatever.
Josh :I don't know what you're talking about.
Rob:No, you know what you're talking about.
Josh :Thanks, Thanks, rob, and appreciate you coming here for the live show today. How fun. So how are we feeling? Do we want to? I'm kind of curious. I'd like to hear from the panel right now. Maybe we can just do a quick round robin like quick hits. So, chedica, let's do a quick round robin. All right, you want to tell the world something smart? You want to tell the world some. Give them some kind of really good advice, a quick 10 second thing, an elevator pitch that is going to help them in their career.
Shonika:Go. I'd say follow your passion. So I was always really passionate about marketing. I remember stepping into business 101 at NC State and taking like a marketing class and feeling like that aha moment, like the light bulb turned on for me and I stuck with that. I tried, I veered off for a little bit. I did some sales because I wanted to understand kind of the whole like business ecosystem. I did a little bit of operations, definitely did not like that, did some supply chain right. But then I came back, got my MBA and really just stayed true to marketing and I love it. I love being here, I love talking about part, I love creating solutions for customers. So find the thing that lights you up, find the thing you're passionate about and then stay true to that.
Josh :Perfect. Thank you, sarah.
Sarah:It's so funny. We practiced this question last night, so I'm extra prepared All right.
Sarah:My advice is don't compare yourself. If you think about it. That old saying like comparison is the thief of joy. It's so true, especially in your career it is. And if you're always looking around saying like I want to be where that woman is or I'm not doing as well as she is, that's going to cause so much complacency and so much burnout in your career and you're eventually going to look around and be like what have I done with all of this time? So I always say don't compare yourself. Be confident in where you are, who you are. At the time you can look up to congratulate and get inspiration, but don't compare yourself and think that you should be somewhere else because you're not. You're where you're at for a reason.
Josh :That's so perfect and I'll tell you too. Just to capitalize on that, and then we're going to have Christina share. Look, you've got to take stock of what you do have right. What are you grateful for? The key to happiness is gratitude, and I don't know if anybody here already knew that, but that is scientifically proven right those people who remember and pay attention to all the things that they have. Life is a gift, right? Our time on planet Earth? It's a gift. The relationships that we have, even if you struggle with them, even if you're challenged by them, it's a gift because you can learn from it. So I think that's great advice. Thank you, All right, christina.
Christina:I would say don't be afraid to dive in. So if there is a piece of technology that you want to learn out and this actually goes all the way back to a D's question earlier about AI and the way it's taking the space in the tech world if there's like so, if you want to learn more about it, start looking at different technologies that are free trials out there. Roll up your sleeves and just start using them and see what could actually stick and be a solution for your organization. Potentially, if there is a career change that you want to make, then start learning about that role that you eventually want to be. Start looking at job descriptions what are the roles and responsibilities of those jobs, and then what do you need to do to get there. And when I say dive in like head first, start listening to podcasts, start reading books, start talking to people in that role and start just filling yourself with knowledge.
Josh :That's excellent advice, Guys. We're going to wrap it up here, but first a couple things real quick. So next Wednesday on our live show, which is hosted on X Spaces, formerly Twitter we will be having Kristen and Nick from 10K Advisors on the call with us. They've just recently released their talent. I don't have it in front of me, it's like the talent overview from the past year. So we're going to look at what's happening in the Salesforce talent market and looking at their report. You can download that at 10Kadvisorscom. And I have just so much gratitude for everyone who's sitting at this table here with me. Thank you so much for being who you are and being so smart and sharing of yourselves with our audience and with everybody here who's visited us here at Dreamforce today. Thank you, and thank you to Sir Conte. So if you can check it out, you want to go ahead and spell it for them so they can check it out.
Christina:Yes, sir Conte, is spelled S-E-R-C-A-N-T-E.
Josh :You guys have been terrific. Thank you so much. Let's give a round of applause for these ladies, shall we? Okay, everybody have a wonderful week. Thank you for listening to the show, as always, and stay tuned for our next live show. The shows are Wednesdays at 230 Pacific, 530 Eastern. We're sort of flipping tracks, so it's going to start again every other week, starting this coming Wednesday, which is probably right about the day that this podcast is getting released. So thanks everybody, and have a wonderful evening.
